Husband effectively made redundant by my brother

[ForgotTheBiscuits]

Am I being unreasonable to upset that my brother has allowed his business to fold and left my husband essentially redundant, but brother hasn’t acknowledged the situation and is not booking any work.

My husband has worked as the sole employee of my brother’s business for over a decade. Work used to be steady and kept both my brother’s and my own family afloat.
Work has dropped off a cliff in the last year, and my brother (the business owner) doesn’t seem to be bothered to do anything to remedy the situation and doesn’t care that my family is sliding deeper in to debt and a significantly reduced standard of living. My brother’s wife has a secure job so he seems happy to live on that and essentially pretend that he still has a business.
So my husband has been made redundant but my brother has not declared this (I think he may be in denial).
I know normally an employee would be entitled to redundancy pay, but my brother won’t acknowledge the business is dead or make any moves to resurrect it. I feel he’s stringing my husband along. If my husband gets a new job, that will be the final nail in the coffin of the business, and it seems horrible to demand redundancy pay from family and to force my brother to acknowledge that we are suffering due to his inertia.
Any advice or opinions would be appreciated!

How has your DH been paying tax on his income? PAYE? Or via an annual tax return?

If work had fallen off a cliff, this isn’t necessarily your DB's fault. If the business isn't viable in the current economic climate, then your DH simply needs to look at other ways to earn a living. Either start up on his own using the skills he's developed (and hopefully do better than your DB has), or find NMW work.

You say you sidelined your own career for your DH's work - you need to revisit that decision now and look at what you can do to bring in money. It sounds as though you have the better earning potential out of the two of you.

That last line is not your or your dhs problem, nor your fault in any way.

Tbh, it sounds like the family business is dead anyway? So your DH's actions aren't going to make a difference to that.

Apologies, taxes and NI are handled by DBs accountant.

I'm still no wiser.

Is Tax and NI deducted from his weekly or monthly wage, or does the accountant fill out a Self Assessment Tax Return for your DH each year, and your DH then pays the tax due?

Sorry to be unclear- The accountant gives an annual bill.

That still doesnt answer the question.
Does he pay Tax and NI as an employee or someone self employed?
If neither of you know then it all sounds a bit "disorganised" at best and its not surprising the Business is going under.
Either way you both need to get jobs to support yourselves now and forget and Redundancy or similar

If it’s an annual tax bill then I don’t think your husband is an employee….

Tbh it’s not really the redundancy thing, I certainly wouldn’t want my db to have to pay out anything himself. I’m frustrated that the business is doing poorly and db didn’t seem to care, or care about the impact on my family. The lack of communication about where the business is going is annoying. You are right that the is a serious problem with organisation with both DH and DB, they both really struggle with this for various reasons.
I do have a job, it’s just pathetic pay. I am trying to find something better. My career took a big hit when I became a mum and my contract in an excellent organisation finished while on maternity, and since 2nd dc I’ve got some significant mental health issues that mean I can only work from home.

He's self employed OP. Your brother should have employed him properly, as an employee, which gives him all the rights of an employee. But for now he needs to address the situation he finds himself in.

As someone self employed (I am), he needs to seek out other self employed work or look for a job. That's how it works. I'd stop worrying about your brother and get your DH to look for other work asap. He can't just sit back and hope the work will come his way from your brother.

Right, now it's clear.

Your DH is self employed. He knew work from your DB was tailing off didn't he. Obviously he did because he was getting fewer and fewer jobs to do. He was bringing less money home as time went on.

So, what did he (your DH) do about the dwindling income? Did he go out looking for other work?
Sit on his arse waiting for your DB to spoon feed him another job or tell him what to do?

I’m frustrated that the business is doing poorly and db didn’t seem to care, or care about the impact on my family.

Your db is not responsible for your family. You and your DH are.

Your anger is misplaced OP.

Thank you. Dh is looking for work and has applied for various jobs.
Ordinarily, I imagine that a wife would not be considering what her dh’s boss was doing or not doing to ensure business success, but as his sister, I know what he’s like and am frustrated with him!

But why aren't you putting your frustration in the right direction!

This is on your dh not your db. Why can't you see this?

As the jobs given to your DH were dwindling what was he doing?
Was he at home more? So you knew he wasn't getting work, knew he wasn't getting paid FFS!

No, he didn’t sit on his arse, he helps out the older members of the family and does maintenance work for them.
had he gone and found something else, it would have been a bit of a shock as the two of them have been working together for so long. If dh was unavailable for work, the business would not be able to continue.
I also worry what the heck db will do if he loses his assistant.

But you knew he wasn't bringing home ££££££!!!!!

Yes, he should have jumped ship about 6 months ago.

Well there you go. Your DH saw the way it was going. Your troubles are down to him, not your DB.

So dh should have immediately left the business when it was floundering, rather than holding on for things to improve. That would have absolutely destroyed relationships within my family!

So he is basically doing voluntary work while you struggle to find a job due to your MH?
One of you needs a proper paying job and if you cant he has to, MW is better than nothing.
Forget the family business, it sounds like its dead and your DH isnt in a position to resurrect it

You and your DH and your choices are responsible for your family income. Nobody else.

You have both known about this problem for at least 6 months or more, yet have passively stood back and watched it happen.

Now you seek your blame your brother's inertia for this.

Has your DH not mentioned anything to your DB???

This whole situation is astonishing.

but as his sister, I know what he’s like and am frustrated with him!

Well if you know what he’s like, it was completely daft of you to sacrifice your own career so your DH could work with him and to place all your financial eggs in a basket that completely relied on him then.

You would have known that if anything happened to the business (your DB doing what you’re accusing him of, an economic downturn, your DB getting sick or even dying) that you’d be up shit creek as your DH would struggle to find another job paying more than MW due to leaving school at 13 without any qualifications. Whereas due to your education, you’d have been more financially secure if you had pursued a graduate job like you said.

I’m not saying this to stick the boot in but to point out that you can’t pin all your woes on your DB, both you and your DH have made some bad decisions and you both need to take responsibility for that before you sour family relationships.

On the basis of the limited information available:

Your DH can set up on his own, subject to a business case funding from a bank in the form of a small business loan so he can complete his training and find an employee to replace himself.
He could offer to buy the business for a £1 [but should be certain they are not taking on debt] and would therefore inherit the customer database and some goodwill. Again, you both need advice from an accountant. Preferably not your DB's. It's a conflict of interest.

He must get advice from CAB or other to establish what rights he does have if any, whether he is in the clear with HMRC on NI, pensions and so on.

Or get a new job asap with possible training on the side. If he's been to all effects acting as an electrician or a plumber for example without professional qualifications, a local firm may be able to take him on as an apprentice on the basis he qualifies quickly. He'll be far more valuable to them as an experienced apprentice than a 17 yr old who can't be bothered to get out of the bed in the morning. [I generalise but seems to be a universal experience at the moment with family in trades]

Your DB's behaviour makes that entirely defendable within the family. It may "kill the family business" or your DB may take on someone new and rebuild. Frankly if it's been a joint enterprise for 10 yrs, in your shoes I'd feel every right to the "family business"

Just one of the many reasons family businesses can be an absolute disaster. I've worked for one in the past, never again. Although agree this isn't a "family business", it's your DB's business and your DH works for him.

Your DH needs to find other work, he certainly doesn't owe your brother anything. He may be entitled to some redundancy depending on whether he would be viewed as an employee or self employed, but that row may not be worth the financial sum, I don't know.

I think YABVVVU to think your brother should be running his business for your benefit. If he wants to work less because they don't need the money then that's up to him.

when it came to me returning to work after having dd1, it was impressed on me by dh and db that I would have to take something flexible to allow for them to work. It made sense at the time for me to do so.

I guess a lot of my frustration is misplaced and I’m cross with myself for not insisting that I get a decent job. I worked so hard for my degree and it would have been easier to get back into a good job if I hadn’t had a hiatus since becoming a mum. I didn’t have generalised anxiety then, so could do exciting things like leaving the house when I wanted and needed to.

Go and see your brother, talk it all out and see what can be salvaged. He is your brother and your husband's work partner and I imagine will be relieved to get it out in the open. Good luck for the future for you and your family lovely x