Husband effectively made redundant by my brother

[ForgotTheBiscuits]

Am I being unreasonable to upset that my brother has allowed his business to fold and left my husband essentially redundant, but brother hasn’t acknowledged the situation and is not booking any work.

My husband has worked as the sole employee of my brother’s business for over a decade. Work used to be steady and kept both my brother’s and my own family afloat.
Work has dropped off a cliff in the last year, and my brother (the business owner) doesn’t seem to be bothered to do anything to remedy the situation and doesn’t care that my family is sliding deeper in to debt and a significantly reduced standard of living. My brother’s wife has a secure job so he seems happy to live on that and essentially pretend that he still has a business.
So my husband has been made redundant but my brother has not declared this (I think he may be in denial).
I know normally an employee would be entitled to redundancy pay, but my brother won’t acknowledge the business is dead or make any moves to resurrect it. I feel he’s stringing my husband along. If my husband gets a new job, that will be the final nail in the coffin of the business, and it seems horrible to demand redundancy pay from family and to force my brother to acknowledge that we are suffering due to his inertia.
Any advice or opinions would be appreciated!

My husband left school at 13 so would only be able to get minimum wage jobs. Also once he gets a job, the family business is dead.

The business is dead by the sounds of it and it's not up to your DH to keep up the facade. He needs to apply for other jobs. He has 10 years experience so no reason to assume he'd only get NMW and even if he did, that's better than being redundant, no?

Sorry - I wasn't clear @flopsythebunny. I meant supporting the family in the sense of being responsible for getting the jobs etc. ie. It's more pressure to be sorting that out than just turning up to do the work.

NMW wage is better than no wage. The business is dead. Seems your brother has realised that. You seem to place yourself between a rock and a hard place when, really, what should practically matter is your household with your husband.

Surely most people who left school at 13 are now eligible for a pension?

DH can't be strung along - if you family is sliding into debt and there's no work, it's on DH to get other work, not feed into your brother's delusions.

I'm guess she means he dropped out. But it's over a decade since he's been working now so that can't be holding him back forever. Maybe it'll be a good thing to move on from the bubble of the family business and start over with something more solid that he can build on, and with proper pay and conditions.

Your hubby needs to look for work, sorry but lots of people lose jobs and cope. Your brother isn't obliged to provide employment forever anyway.
You've been fortunate up.until now in a way.
Time for a new Challenge.
It might not be as bad as you think.

Firstly, it looks as though your husband wasn't a contracted employee, and so it's unlikely that he's being made redundant as such, it's just that your DB doesn't have any work to pass his way. I very much doubt that your brother would need to pay him any kind of payoff, but there's no harm in visiting the CAB and getting advice. I really hope your DH has been completing his tax returns and paying his tax and NI contributions, otherwise that's a big problem that will need sorting.

Secondly, it's not your DB's responsibility to provide employment for your DH or to take any responsibility to support your family at all. It is up to you and your DH to find employment that will support your family. I'd suggest you both start looking for work straight away. Ideally a permanent contract if you want job security. It sounds like your brother has been very good to you/your DH in the past, but it's now time for you to stand on your own two feet.

My DH is on top of his NI and tax affairs.
I know it’s not my brother’s responsibility to support my family, that’s what my DH has been doing for over 10 years.

What is grating is that my husband has helped build up the business and is incredibly hard working, great at his job and is very loyal. So I feel like it’s a bit rubbish that DB has allowed the business to fold, without saying ‘I can’t be bothered with this anymore, I’m going to live off my wife’s salary and you can sod off now’.

But your DB doesn't owe your DH a job! You seem to think he does?

Your DB presumably paid your DH for the work he did. That's where his responsibility to your DH ends.

It's up to you and your DH to seek out and gain suitable employment to support your family. It's not your DB's responsibility to offer your DH a job for life. If your DB is happy to no longer run his business, then that's entirely up to him.

But surely your DH could see the writing on the wall, as you say work dropped off a cliff in the last year?

Really, your DH has been passively waiting for your DB to Do Something rather than talking about the drop off in work and asking what's going to happen.

Your DH needs to get another job. ASAP.

I don’t expect anyone to offer a job for life, but if you have 1 employee, and you can’t be bothered to keep your business going, it would be a professional courtesy to say so!

But your DH isn't an employee - it seems like he's self employed and your DB has been kind enough to pass some work his way. And it's up to your DB to decide whether or not he wishes to keep his business going. Your DB owes you and your DH nothing at all, and certainly doesn't have any obligation to discuss his business with you.

You really need to drop this sense of entitlement and belief that your DB is somehow responsible for providing work for your family.

You say your husband doesn't have qualifications, but surely he has built up skills and expertise in the role? The further iu get away from school, the less important the exams become and the work experience and transferable skills become more.

Can you get a loan for the £5k so he can get what he needs to be able to run a business in this field himself? You say he has been successful at it, so it should pay for itself over time.

The clue was the word ‘employee’, and it wasn’t that DB was ‘kind enough to pass work my husband’s way’. It is a job that requires two people, my husband has been a loyal employee for over ten years, helped build up the business, worked so damn hard, just to be let go in the most lackadaisical manner possible.
If it was some random employer, that’s one thing, but treat family this way is a bit rubbish?

He’s not an employee if he isn’t receiving a salary.
he’s paid by the job. It’s legally very different.

He really needs advice, needs to discuss taking over the business from your brother, get another job, etc.

You can’t make your brother do anything at all.

If he gets paid per job is he self employed?

I seem to be the minority here, but the brother thing is a red herring really. Any employer who treats their employee like this is pretty poor, regardless of whether you’re employing family. I’d certainly have something to say if my employer started to wind their business up and effectively make me redundant without actually doing it, or communicating with me at all. Whether it’s family or not, if you’ve got employees you have a responsibility to them because they are relying on you to an extent, so the very least you can do is offer some clarity.

That said, your DH should absolutely be applying for new jobs, not just waiting for your DB to decide what he’s doing. Hopefully 10 years in that industry will help him :)

Can't your husband take over the business? Swap roles with your brother basically. Or take your brothers role and employ someone to do your husbands current role if needed?

Your DH is not an employee if he's self employed. An employee pays PAYE. Does your DH pay PAYE? If he doesn't he won't get a redundancy pay out because he's not being made redundant just no longer given contractors work. It is up to your DH to find his own work. Up until now he's had it easy being handed work by your brother. Time for your DH to stand on his own two feet. Send him off to the job centre.

It’s a very blurred line of worker vs self employed. Uber drivers won their case confirming they were employees despite not getting a traditional salary, there’s plenty of other indicators to determine whether you’re an employee or not

I don't think the DH is an employee though. It seems like he's self employed. If he is an employee he'll pay PAYE.

Your posts are all over the place, he helped build the business up but bears no responsibility for its decline, sure, and who just lets their business go bust, no one, clearly there is an issue you don’t understand.

your husband needs to find work, stop hanging on like this. Have an adult conversation with his boss. Your brother and decide route forward, explain you need thr money and he has to work elsewhere.

I’m sure I read a comment by OP about PAYE but maybe I imagined it 😅

You’re being given a hard time here which is unfair

Your brother is treating his employee badly by keeping him strung along with no income rather than making him redundant , which would give him rights to redundancy money, and to claim unemployment benefits, neither of which he can get if he just quits. The fact it’s his BIL makes it worse. Your brother doesn’t have to keep the business going, but he does need to decide if he is going to keep running it as a business, or close it. If he’s closing it he needs to make any employees (your husband) redundant properly.

It’s possible BIL know this and is worried about needing to pay out redundancy money. However there are schemes I think where if a business can’t afford to pay the government covers some of it.

I suggest you and DH get some advice from CAB, ACAS or a legal helpline (see if you have anything through home insurance) to find out what he might be entitled to, especially as he’s on some kind of zero hours set up which may complicate things.

If you would be willing to take over the business from your brother, then you need to talk to him about that. Once you know the redundancy situation, I wonder if you could use that to talk to your brother. Offer that, rather than him needing to pay DH redundancy he “sell” you the business in lieu of what he would otherwise owe you. I’m assuming that would save you some or all of the £5k you’d need otherwise.

If you think you could make a go of the business then you could find out if there might be any government help available for the start up costs. There might be nothing these days, but there used to be schemes from the job centre to help ppl who wanted to start their own business . At least you might be able to get a low interest loan that way.

Unless there is just no demand from customers anymore it sounds like there should be a solid business here .

good luck