To think ski school for the tiny ones is fairly barbaric?

[Nurder]

We have just gotten back from a week skiing in France and I spent a good deal of time on the learner slopes with a friend who is just learning. The amount of 3/4/5 year old children wailing in the snow and being terrified was just upsetting. The ratios appear to be really high with not enough staff to remotely cover what the kids actually need.

Yep it's how it works in France, ESF have a special line, but to avoid congestion, it's one kid at a time on the lifts, so the person in charge at the top of the lift can focus on helping that one child, and as far as I know, no one has ever been lost in the mountain.

I've taken lifts many times with a random child, no drama at all. You just let them go off first

Kids are a bit everyone's responsibility on the slopes, if you see a kid being separated from their group, you help them and bring them back.

And they cry. When she was 4, my sister cried because my mum told her that no, she couldn't have a pet cow in our 2 beds flat 😂

I don't think skiing and swimming are comparable, I mean I can't see being able to ski is likely to be able to save your life

I have lots of memories of being helped by random skiers when I was a kid. It’s one of the lovely aspects of the sport.

I'm still laughing at the idea of skiing being an essential lifeskill, on par with swimming...

Mine had a whale of a time. We did only do mornings until he was 5 though, longer than that and he got tired and fell over. We always meet for lunch as well, so it’s just 2x 2 hours per day, which for a primary aged child is totally manageable.

There was a bit of separation anxiety when he was little (just as there was at nursery drop offs) but I hid around a corner and watched, and he was happy as Larry five minutes later. Loved sledging and digging in the snow in the breaks. He’s now a good red run skier aged 7, so all worth it. Loves going, always adores his teachers, likes racing me.

On preview, we’ve always been to Austria, or Canada! So that might skew things. Lovely, warm, fun instructors. Lots of games. Gummibear and hot chocolate stops. Silly chants. Music playing in the magic carpet area.

Both mine cried a lot at that age. I don't blame the instructors or ski school it's just hard work learning to ski plus the separation anxiety and sometimes being in a mixed class with another language being spoken alongside English. Although having said that when I picked it up again as an adult I had a few tears at the beginning too 😂.

Now they're older and good skiiers it's all forgotten and they love it!

You never know, you might fall from a plane right on top of the Mont Blanc with a pair of skis on your feet, how do you go back in the valley if you haven't learned how to ski?!?

Joke aside, it's a class thing.
At least in France it is.
When you're a youh adult starting to earn some money, generally the topic of going skiing with friends comes up and those who haven't been taught young can feel a bit left out, it really is a big class divider in France.

I used to cry at swimming lessons when I was that age. Not sure it’s that different really. In some parts of Europe, skiiing really is something that everyone does and the earlier you start, the better.

Just to add mine also cried at drop off at the school gate at that age - it's a small person thing!

Mine were in ski school (ESF) from a very early age. They loved it, learned quickly and are now very accomplished skiers.

We ski mostly in the 3 Valleys and it's fairly rare to see a small child in ski school upset. They are usually having a great time. Mine certainly loved it.

ESF were awful in our experience. Son wouldn’t go back after day 1. If we go again, we’ll try the Italian Alps, as friends have much more positive stories than they do about ESF!

My kids also did ESF from 4/5 and were fine, although like one of the posters many of the early years we were with Family Ski who had a helper with the little kids. They always seemed to be happy to go back the next day and don’t seem too scarred by the experience. We also always had English speaking instructors. I think ESF tend to be better in resorts where they know there’s competition

DS and DD are now mid to late teens and went all the way through with ESF up to gold star and have excellent technique.

My kids did ESF from age 3/4 and loved it - they're teens now and look back on it happily. I guess this isn't a "one size fits all" situation.

Am a total Francophile and am actually now skiing in France, but when the kids were little I took them to Austria for much kinder lessons and they loved it. We did France/ESF when they were 9/11 and so more used to the much harsher regime.

Yes, we pulled out ds1 after one day. We used what we'd paid for privates, and then taught him ourselves.

Ds2 we taught ourselves.

Right so it's a useful social skill in some circles, rather than an essential life skill.

As a 31 year old I was traumatized by horrible French ski instructors yelling at me let alone at 5! They were just awful. Had fabulous experiences in Canada, the States, Austria and Italy though.

Our kids learnt in Italy and Austria safe to say and loved it

The same is true in the UK - our graduate hires at work organise a big ski trip each year and the ones who don't ski always seem a bit left out and unfortunately that "left out" persists once they are back at work.

Op I think you are mixing things up. Most areas 3/4 year olds their lesson is an hour in the 'snow garden'.

5 yos are ready for the main slopes.
Have you ever been evacuated from a chairlift? You'd never want LOs getting evacuated without some sort of adult with them hence policies are under 125cm must be with an adult on the chairlifts. How else would you get them up a chairlift if not with random adults?

I'd also think the parents should have made sure the child was happy going on a chairlift before sending them to ski school.

My kids have both been on chairlifts since they were babies in slings attached to me. Evacuation was when the penny dropped why they insisted babies were in slings.

My Boys have had lessons in both Austria and France, mainly France with ESF. They’ve been fine, although DS wasn’t keen on Piou Piou when he was little. Other DS had a few private lessons aged about 10 as he wanted to board. We go to smaller resorts and all instructors have been nice.

Ive never seen any distressed kids on chairs (except mine having an occasional strop years ago). I do chat to the ones who are put on a chair with me…. I haven’t seen evidence of barbarism.

We've also avoided ESF at all costs. Too many kids to teachers and I've observed them being pretty mean to the kids on numerous occasions.

Can second the British ski schools such as New Gen etc. Often 3-4 to a group and my kids have loved all their teachers. And they happily skied a black in their first week, you don't have to suffer the ESF way to become a proficient skier.

Sitting with an ESF book in my hands their maximum number per group is 8. I'm sure they sometimes have more but with more instructors.

I've seen way more than 8 per group with ESF.

@Needanewname42 Happy to post pics as proof tomorrow. They are closer to 12 in a group.

Count the instructors too.
8 is what they have written in the book.