To think ski school for the tiny ones is fairly barbaric?

[Nurder]

We have just gotten back from a week skiing in France and I spent a good deal of time on the learner slopes with a friend who is just learning. The amount of 3/4/5 year old children wailing in the snow and being terrified was just upsetting. The ratios appear to be really high with not enough staff to remotely cover what the kids actually need.

All ESFs are different.
ours learnt from age 4 with ESF and Family Ski Company ski school helpers to support.
They had great fun and we still love ski holidays as a family.

@Havanananana I agree about Austria, so nice. Although I was a little surprised to spot my 4 year old starter absolutely bombing down the slopes with her class after just a few days - I'm sure they know what they're doing 😬

After the ESF experience we now use an English ski school in France but all the instructors are Italian for some reason, and they’re great! We go back to the same place a lot and the instructors remember the kids year after year which is lovely.

As others have said, totally depends on the ski school. Starts in the Scandi Skistar resorts age 3 and is basically a bunch of kids playing in the snow with the loveliest, kindest adults you can imagine and heaps of silly games. (They do obviously learn in between!)

One thing I never understand though is parents dragging their screaming kids skiing. Or doing things like refusing to carry their (tiny) kids’ skis. The number of times I’ve seen parents really yelling at little ones who are clearly just cold/tired/sore. How is that fun for anyone or going to encourage any child to love skiing?!

We noticed this with ESF in France, the ratios were crazy, about 24 tinies (4/5 yr olds) with 2 instructors. Lot's left behind and seemingly only very slightly supervised, nobody crying though, so it must work out, somehow!

"ours learnt from age 4 with ESF and Family Ski Company ski school helpers to support."

That was probably what made the difference!

Leaving a child of that age in a new childcare setting is probably going to be quite overwhelming and unnerving, even aside from the skiing! If they were starting a new preschool or school, it would take them at least a week to settle in, by which time it's the end of the holiday. Throw in multiple languages, the busyness of the environment, learning a physical new skill. It's a lot. I'm sure some kids love it, but others probably not so much.

I didn't go to ski school, but we used to go to the kids club at Eurocamp and I hated them and found them very overwhelming.

That sounds like a very poor school.

We've always gone to club med and they're very good with the kids. The beginners practice in a little garden with very gentle slopes and only get to go on the ski slopes when the instructor thinks they're ready. My DD got promoted but started crying once she was on the beginner slopes and they sent her back to the garden immediately. They also have guest officers who hang around to take care of the children and make sure they're comfortable - they brought out hot drinks and snacks for my children when they said they were thirsty.

One of mine loved it, went in the pouring rain and the only child not crying and eagerly listening. The other one hated it, insisted she could go in the cabin and took a nap on the floor! Where we ski ESF ages 2-4 have their own small section, fenced off, only for them with a cabin and they have snacks and play games, no chance of getting left on the side of a mountain at that age. However some kids do still cry, my second being a prime example, we ski a lot though but we won’t try group lessons with her again until she’s older and more confident. Ideally I would use private/small group but when you ski several times a season the costs are very different!

Barbaric? Er, no.

I love to see the little ones whizzing past, without poles. If they can learn young, it comes so easily.

I can’t recall seeing anything other than little ones having fun. Sounds like a rubbish ski school with bad instructors.

I learnt to ski at 3 years old with my dad. Grew up at the bottom of a ski slope in Sweden so it was hard not to ski since we spent most evenings and weekends in the slopes. Don't think I cried particularly much, if anything I wanted to go faster. It's good for kids to develop a bit of resilience too, not everything we do have to be comfortable or fun when we first start out.

We always used ESF (from about age 4) and always had a good experience. There's always the one kid that has fallen over and can't get up again but they are usually righted quickly. I simply don't recognise your depiction of 'terrified' children. I don't get the ESF hate - we've always had fantastic instructors. ESF gave a really solid grounding to DS - he's skiing unpisted blacks and serious off piste at age 12 so clearly something sunk in.

Ha, this is giving me flashbacks! I’ve never been skiing as an adult - can’t afford it and DH isn’t interested - but spent large chunks of my childhood being yelled at in French by ESF instructors. Some things clearly never change…

I saw similar from ESF over half term in France - nothing truly awful, but some very brusque treatment of very young children who were clearly tired, overwhelmed or scared. I noticed it more when we were up the mountain, rather than down at the learner slopes - as if the instructors had let their guard down. Was glad we had booked our kids with ESI who had lower ratios and a much better reputation locally. Interestingly a lot of the ESI instructors were Italian.

It was ESF that I witnessed. One little girl who was maybe 5 was absolutely terrified of the chair lift. They were sending them up one child at a time with 3 random adults and hoping the adults help them off at the top. She was properly hysterical and screaming no. They manhandled her to the front of the queue and put her on the chair lift with 3 men she didn't know. They told her to stop squirming and screaming or she'd fall and off she went. It was truly upsetting! I can only hope the men on the lift with her were kind. That was the worst of what I saw but plenty of tiny kids crying in the snow being left behind as well. The ratios are bonkers for kids that age. How can you have 12 3-4 year olds on skis and only two adults?

We've had a good experience with ESF, but we've only used them in the French Pyrenees for our DC who have been in French school since they were 3 and speak fluent French, so there's no culture shock in teaching styles. I suspect that it depends on the individual ESF ski schools and also the instructors within the school. I observed that the instructors are often helping kids from other groups who have fallen over on the slope. We're there in French school holidays so the slopes are full of ESF groups (and the kids all have vests which say who their instructor is rather than the ski level, because there are always hundreds of Oursons and Flocons).

Learning to ski is not an enjoyable experience in general but once you know the basics, it's just the best thing in the world.

I learned with ESF, I don't remember it being "barbaric" at all, I guess it's because I'm French and used to the French way with kids in general, it was the same when I learned ballet or horse riding.

🤣 skiing is a "lifeskill"??

Chances are if a child is screaming you need to change activities

I did a season in whistler and the ski school was cheaper than daycare so all the locals used it. They started as young as 3 and we'd ski all morning and then they would be absolutely shattered so would head back to base and they'd nap and play in the ski school kids room. Parents then complained that they are paying for a full day of skiing and so we had to stay on the slopes from 9.30-3.30 every day. The kids were miserable and falling over constantly in the afternoons. It took the fun out of it completely for them...and me!

This is exactly the experience i remember from skiing with ESF as a child.

Being shouted at in French, random ski lifts and being left behind as i fell off my button chair lift thing.

Sounds awful

I've been skiing loads and also seen this. The instructors are in charge of so many and you van see them screaming sometimes.

My DC have learnt with ESF and others as part of Esprit ski holidays. Morning lessons only and then fun snow play or family time in the afternoon, until they are about 8 and want to ski all day. DH and I are both decent skiers but not teachers. Both DC now good skiers and probably better technique wise than us.

Re chair lifts...
Its considered safer to send the children up with adults in case there's a problem. Usually in pairs though, never seen it individually.

The issue there is the child was crying and obviously didn't want to be there.