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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask for advice on how to deal with 5 year olds behaviour?

28 replies

lionlass · 26/03/2024 16:33

I have a 5 year old ds and a 9 month old ds. Whenever I’m home alone with both of them and I’m trying to get the 9 month old down for a nap, my 5yo deliberately tries to wake him up. I’ve tried asking him to stay in another room, giving him a snack, putting the tv on and even bringing him into the same room with us and giving him my phone to watch at a low volume. Nothing works. He constantly wakes him by trying to touch him, making loud noises and even hits him. It starts with me whispering to him asking him to stop, to be quiet or to leave the room but inevitably ends with me losing my patience and shouting. He doesn’t seem to care that I’m shouting and just laughs.

I’m at my wits end and always feel bad that I’ve snapped at him. Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle it?

OP posts:
TimetoPour · 26/03/2024 16:40

Your 5 year old needs you too! You can’t send them away.

Never be quiet around a new baby. New babies need to fit with the old routine rather than the other way round.

How long does it take you to get the baby to
sleep? If you need to hold baby, can you all sit together and read a book, watch TV etc- a baby will fall asleep with this in
the background.

Stop pushing 5 year old out and they won’t feel the need to push back.

User1979289 · 26/03/2024 16:41

I used to have a special plastic toy box I kept special toys in (just regular things he loved) and he would only get that when the baby was asleep. So he wanted her to sleep. I also played with him when she slept. If my 5 yo had hit his baby sibling I'd have gone berserk thou, I always dealt with any nonsense very robustly and was called harsh by other parents but my 2 are so incredibly close and loving now and really take care of each other.

Mishmashs · 26/03/2024 16:41

Bribery? Bowl of chocolate buttons in the kitchen? I have a very strong willed daughter (now six) but I would consider that very naughty at 5 to just not listen and keep quiet while trying to get baby to sleep. Have you explained that baby sleeping means you’ll get to pay special attention with the big sibling? Is there a game or activity like baking he is really keen to do just one on one with you?

viques · 26/03/2024 16:49

Try to make the baby’s naps something positive for the 5 year old. Think of things you and the five year old can do together during the naps,ask your five year old for ideas too, write them on cards and put them in a box, then say that he can choose a card for you to do together once the baby is asleep.They don’t have to be big things, watch a cartoon together, play with bubbles in the garden, read a book, do some colouring, set up a train set or some Lego. The important thing is that it is your time together, your phone goes off, you don’t answer the door, you focus on the five year old so that he has a vested interest in the baby going to sleep.

chickpea1982 · 26/03/2024 16:55

It sounds like you are trying to distract your 5 year old rather than disciplining him. I'd also take this approach, but only with a younger child. 5 is old enough to be punished for bad behaviour. Are there any consequences you can impose, like sending him to his room, stopping screen time etc? He will soon learn not to do it when it results in him losing his privileges.

skkyelark · 26/03/2024 17:08

Is this new behaviour, or has this been going on for months? If it's new, I'd be asking what's changed.

Will baby sleep in the buggy? If so, you could try to just sort of reset things by being out and about for nap for a week or so and see if that breaks the habit. Depends how often you're on your own with them, though, and how often baby is napping. Three naps a day five days a week might be rather trying! Although you could put it to the five year old that that's a natural consequence – you won't let baby sleep in the house, so out for another walk we go...

Rainyspringflowers · 26/03/2024 17:11

Some babies really can’t sleep in a noisy environment. It’s quite normal at 9 months: they aren’t tiny newborns nodding off all over the place any more.

No advice OP but solidarity. My three year old does this as well and all the telling him that we’ll be able to do XYZ when DD is asleep makes no difference. The lure of annoying everybody is far more attractive than a jigsaw puzzle or whatever it would seem.

Dacadactyl · 26/03/2024 17:11

Are you in the room with baby when trying to put down for a nap?

If so, I'd try to include the 5 year old in nap time. So if he knows how to read already/or even if he has a fave book that he knows by heart, I'd ask him to read to the baby.

Then I'd get him to sing a lullaby and stroke baby's hair or whatever. Or bring the baby's fave Teddy etc etc.

Whatever you do, just think of a way to include him in the process. Tell him he's the special big brother who will be able to get baby to sleep and outline what you want him to do.

Then plenty of praise if you can see him trying to get involved.

chickpea1982 · 26/03/2024 19:22

I'm quite shocked at some of the responses above, which seem to propose that the child is not disciplined for their behaviour, despite repeatedly not doing as they are told. If it was a 3 year old I would understand. But at 5? Unless they had special needs I would absolutely expect a 5 year old to do as they were told, and if they didn't to suffer consequences. I'm not talking leaving them out in the cold or hitting them with a switch! But sending to room, naughty step, removal of privileges etc. Otherwise how do they learn? It's also worth remembering that they will be going to school at this age. If their parents aren't teaching them discipline at home then how will they act in the classroom? You can't expect a teacher with 30 kids to look after to take them aside and suggest they sing a lullaby whenever they don't do what they are told! AIBU?!

NotQuiteNorma · 26/03/2024 19:47

How is he getting in the room? Put a gate on the door or a latch he can't reach. Problem solved, surely?

Dacadactyl · 26/03/2024 19:48

chickpea1982 · 26/03/2024 19:22

I'm quite shocked at some of the responses above, which seem to propose that the child is not disciplined for their behaviour, despite repeatedly not doing as they are told. If it was a 3 year old I would understand. But at 5? Unless they had special needs I would absolutely expect a 5 year old to do as they were told, and if they didn't to suffer consequences. I'm not talking leaving them out in the cold or hitting them with a switch! But sending to room, naughty step, removal of privileges etc. Otherwise how do they learn? It's also worth remembering that they will be going to school at this age. If their parents aren't teaching them discipline at home then how will they act in the classroom? You can't expect a teacher with 30 kids to look after to take them aside and suggest they sing a lullaby whenever they don't do what they are told! AIBU?!

Don't get me wrong I am a firm disciplinarian and have no time for gentle parenting.

Just that if mum is always busy with the baby and the 5 yo is on the back burner, I can see why he's not listening.

NuffSaidSam · 26/03/2024 19:56

You need the five year old to want the baby asleep.

I'd get some new books/a Lego set/puzzle whatever he's into and tell him you can only do it when the baby naps. Absolutely stick to it.

I would also make sure just before I went to put the baby down I ran through the routine with the older one 'I'm going to put baby down for his nap upstairs, you're going to watch Bluey and have your snack, once baby is asleep we'll get the new Lego out and do it together'.

Original poster
lionlass · 26/03/2024 19:59

TimetoPour · 26/03/2024 16:40

Your 5 year old needs you too! You can’t send them away.

Never be quiet around a new baby. New babies need to fit with the old routine rather than the other way round.

How long does it take you to get the baby to
sleep? If you need to hold baby, can you all sit together and read a book, watch TV etc- a baby will fall asleep with this in
the background.

Stop pushing 5 year old out and they won’t feel the need to push back.

It usually takes me a few minutes to get baby to sleep and then I need to hold him for about 10 minutes before putting him down or he'll just wake up.

Baby is very nosy and needs a quiet room to fall asleep otherwise he's constantly craning his neck to see the tv/ what his brother is up to etc.

OP posts:
Original poster
lionlass · 26/03/2024 20:01

User1979289 · 26/03/2024 16:41

I used to have a special plastic toy box I kept special toys in (just regular things he loved) and he would only get that when the baby was asleep. So he wanted her to sleep. I also played with him when she slept. If my 5 yo had hit his baby sibling I'd have gone berserk thou, I always dealt with any nonsense very robustly and was called harsh by other parents but my 2 are so incredibly close and loving now and really take care of each other.

I do sometimes go berserk but as you can imagine it just makes things worse as there's no way baby is sleeping after I've raised my voice.

OP posts:
RockAndRollerskate · 26/03/2024 20:02

My DS went through this phase when he was 3, the only thing I found that worked was my iPad on kids YouTube with his headphones in - tv doesn’t have the same draw, maybe because he can’t change it himself? I then would only allow it for baby nap times as long as he kept out of the way

Original poster
lionlass · 26/03/2024 20:02

Mishmashs · 26/03/2024 16:41

Bribery? Bowl of chocolate buttons in the kitchen? I have a very strong willed daughter (now six) but I would consider that very naughty at 5 to just not listen and keep quiet while trying to get baby to sleep. Have you explained that baby sleeping means you’ll get to pay special attention with the big sibling? Is there a game or activity like baking he is really keen to do just one on one with you?

I've tried bribery but as soon as he's finished his sweets he just comes in the room and wakes him up 😅

OP posts:
Original poster
lionlass · 26/03/2024 20:06

chickpea1982 · 26/03/2024 16:55

It sounds like you are trying to distract your 5 year old rather than disciplining him. I'd also take this approach, but only with a younger child. 5 is old enough to be punished for bad behaviour. Are there any consequences you can impose, like sending him to his room, stopping screen time etc? He will soon learn not to do it when it results in him losing his privileges.

He's not quite 5 yet but will be in a couple months. I do send him to his room but he kicks up such a fuss and screams and cries which then means baby won't go to sleep.

OP posts:
Biffbaff · 26/03/2024 20:09

I have the same age gap. Tbh the only thing that really worked was threat of a harsh punishment (no more games for the rest of the weekend - he gets to play on the playstation most days but only if he is good). I then give lots of praise and thank him for being quiet to reinforce the good behaviour. By the time you're shouting around the sleepy baby it's too late, you need his agreement to be good beforehand and if he doesn't then it's whatever consequences you have decided. He will soon learn.

Original poster
lionlass · 26/03/2024 20:10

skkyelark · 26/03/2024 17:08

Is this new behaviour, or has this been going on for months? If it's new, I'd be asking what's changed.

Will baby sleep in the buggy? If so, you could try to just sort of reset things by being out and about for nap for a week or so and see if that breaks the habit. Depends how often you're on your own with them, though, and how often baby is napping. Three naps a day five days a week might be rather trying! Although you could put it to the five year old that that's a natural consequence – you won't let baby sleep in the house, so out for another walk we go...

It's not new behaviour but it's getting increasingly difficult to deal with as baby gets older and more interested in every noise he hears.

Thankfully most of his naps are when his brother is at nursery so I mainly struggle at weekends or like today when he was off nursery.

OP posts:
Inchimoocha · 26/03/2024 20:11

chickpea1982 · 26/03/2024 19:22

I'm quite shocked at some of the responses above, which seem to propose that the child is not disciplined for their behaviour, despite repeatedly not doing as they are told. If it was a 3 year old I would understand. But at 5? Unless they had special needs I would absolutely expect a 5 year old to do as they were told, and if they didn't to suffer consequences. I'm not talking leaving them out in the cold or hitting them with a switch! But sending to room, naughty step, removal of privileges etc. Otherwise how do they learn? It's also worth remembering that they will be going to school at this age. If their parents aren't teaching them discipline at home then how will they act in the classroom? You can't expect a teacher with 30 kids to look after to take them aside and suggest they sing a lullaby whenever they don't do what they are told! AIBU?!

No you absolutely aren't

Original poster
lionlass · 26/03/2024 20:11

Dacadactyl · 26/03/2024 17:11

Are you in the room with baby when trying to put down for a nap?

If so, I'd try to include the 5 year old in nap time. So if he knows how to read already/or even if he has a fave book that he knows by heart, I'd ask him to read to the baby.

Then I'd get him to sing a lullaby and stroke baby's hair or whatever. Or bring the baby's fave Teddy etc etc.

Whatever you do, just think of a way to include him in the process. Tell him he's the special big brother who will be able to get baby to sleep and outline what you want him to do.

Then plenty of praise if you can see him trying to get involved.

I will give this a try thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
lionlass · 26/03/2024 20:12

NotQuiteNorma · 26/03/2024 19:47

How is he getting in the room? Put a gate on the door or a latch he can't reach. Problem solved, surely?

I do have a gate but I closed it once and he cried his eyes out.. waking baby.

OP posts:
Inchimoocha · 26/03/2024 20:13

Biffbaff · 26/03/2024 20:09

I have the same age gap. Tbh the only thing that really worked was threat of a harsh punishment (no more games for the rest of the weekend - he gets to play on the playstation most days but only if he is good). I then give lots of praise and thank him for being quiet to reinforce the good behaviour. By the time you're shouting around the sleepy baby it's too late, you need his agreement to be good beforehand and if he doesn't then it's whatever consequences you have decided. He will soon learn.

This 100%

Original poster
lionlass · 26/03/2024 20:13

NuffSaidSam · 26/03/2024 19:56

You need the five year old to want the baby asleep.

I'd get some new books/a Lego set/puzzle whatever he's into and tell him you can only do it when the baby naps. Absolutely stick to it.

I would also make sure just before I went to put the baby down I ran through the routine with the older one 'I'm going to put baby down for his nap upstairs, you're going to watch Bluey and have your snack, once baby is asleep we'll get the new Lego out and do it together'.

I will try this thank you.

OP posts:
bakewellbride · 26/03/2024 20:13

I have a 5 year old. If he is naughty he gets a warning. 3 warnings used up and it's sitting on the step for a time out then he has to apologise.

He also has a jar and gets a marble every time he does something really good and knows he'll get a small gift when the jar is full.

No way would I tolerate hitting a baby, that would be an instant time out and no tv all afternoon in this house. You need a discipline system and a reward system and must be consistent with both.