Something needs to be done about drugs in UK

[RegretMisery]

Drugs are killing healthy young people. How is it that a drug dealer is not tried as a murderer?

It's not limited to class. It could be your own son or daughter.

You know how many people in Singapore die from overdoses? Almost none, because drugs are actually illegal there.

we arent tough enough are we?

If we bought back death or even life imprisoment for drug smuggling etc, we wouldnt have so much of a problem.

No different that someone who is drunk, and also would be treated the same by the police unless they had drugs on them at the time.

It wouldn’t solve the issue at all. I don’t know how many of you have experience with class A drug use, but no matter what their behaviour is unpredictable. How would we police it? Could you be an addict and still drive a bus, work as a nurse, work with children? Would it be legal to be high in a public place during the day? Do you want that legalised around your children? Would you be happy with benefits being spent on heroin? Would we limit who we sold it to (ie nobody with serious health issues or who had a conviction for committing crime under the influence/dealing) thus creating a black market anyway?

It’s too fraught with problems. Legalisation is pure fantasy and can’t be implemented in any way.

"Cars and dogs serve a purpose, to transport and accompany. Drugs (illegal ones) do not"

Drugs do serve a purpose. When used recreationally and in moderation they are a lot of fun. Just like horse riding, or off piste skiing, or rock climbing, or surfing. All recreational activities.that are done for enjoyment/recreation/fun but also carry risk. I assume you don't think all those activities should be banned?

Which may - or may not - be true.

However I can't see how that statement advances the discussion ? Where the OP clearly wants something to be done about something. Which seemed quite straightforward until some people started asking what the something that needed something doing about was.

"Cars and dogs serve a purpose, to transport and accompany. Drugs (illegal ones) do not."

The trouble is, they absolutely do serve a purpose. Most people who develop serious addiction issues are self-medicating for untreated or poorly treated mental health conditions and neurodiversity. There are thousands of young people using ketamine to alleviate ADHD symptoms, for example; it's a shitty, lethal, horrible drug, but it does, to some extent, "work". Same goes for cannabis and things like panic disorder, PTSD and bipolar. Until we tackle the utter paucity of appropriate support and treatment for these issues, people will carry resorting to illegal drugs. It's horrendous, but criminalising the people suffering at the bottom of the chain is always a disaster.

Example: a 19yo lad with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD, who has been excluded from school after being labelled as a shit kid and offered no support at all, just punishment and contempt. He now has panic attacks and an anger problem as well. He knows he can't access education and has few prospects. His relationship with his family has broken down because they don't understand why he keeps failing at everything. He doesn't sleep, eats poorly and can't manage self-care because of executive dysfunction (which neither he nor his family have ever heard of). His friends are other mentally unwell, angry "shit kids" who have been spat out by schools with zero-tolerance behaviour policies and no SEND provision. They're all self-medicating with drugs. The only jobs they can get are zero-hours contracts in fast food restaurants, and they frequently get sacked because they can't manage even that level of consistency and function. There are thousands of them, and the fact that many of them will end up in prison is a systemic failure, not a personal one.

Why are you banging on about Canada, rather than somewhere closer to home such as Portugal which decriminalized 24 years ago and has lower rates of drug use, and lower rates of drug deaths than the EU average?

The trouble is, they absolutely do serve a purpose. Most people who develop serious addiction issues are self-medicating for untreated or poorly treated mental health conditions and neurodiversity.

To say nothing of conditions like MS, where cannabis can be a godsend.

I'm really curious as to what info you're basing the term catastrophic on? And what aspects of harm reduction centres you're referring to?

There is good, solid research behind the use of safe injection sites for example. People have a better chance of getting clean when they are alive. Merely creating tougher sentencing for drug use or distribution would just put more people in prison. And of course there are no drugs there! And people come back out with such good support and opportunities that it's easier to stay clean... we know criminalisation doesn't work. If someone does manage to get clean in prison, they still don't have the skills or support to stay clean outside of prison in an entirely different set of circumstances.

The problems that exist regarding substance misuse vary by country depending on the type of drugs being misused. For example in the US, the ability of pharmaceutical companies to privately market oxy is unethical. Many communities with high rates of physical labour are more closely associated with certain types of substance use linked to pain relief. Where I live due to historical trauma the main drug use is related to benzos and 'downers' because people with higher rates of adrenaline through trauma are more inclined to want to shut off that part of their system.

If you want to treat addiction, you need to treat the social problems relating to it. You need to treat the community cause. And that means working alongside people while they are using. Which involves harm reductionist approaches.

I've worked with many people who misuse substances, harm reductionist approaches have a very important place but they often seem scary to people who don't fully understand why they are needed. I know people who I believe to only be alive (and now clean) because of that type of work.

Put down the pipe.

It's almost as if that doesn't fit the narrative

Deterrents don't work when the risk of being caught is very, very low. Which in the UK it is. The reason that deterrent sentences appear to work well in Singapore is because there is a reasonably high chance of drug smugglers being caught - it's a tiny island with two bridges, one harbour, and one airport connecting it to the rest of the world.

It isn't always as simple as going to meetings. Meetings are a great way to maintain a drug free life style, access ongoing peer support AFTER the detox, the psychiatric support and the help/counselling regarding the ADHD, or the abuse in childhood or whatever else is going on is addressed. But those are the things that it is almost impossible to get help with, certainly not without money.

My only narrative is for young beautiful people to stop dying in their bloody twenties of a preventable death!

Are you disputing the fact that illegal drugs are enjoyable for some people?

Im not even talking about your “junkie” types. I know a lot of professional people with “good” jobs who occasionally do a few lines on a Friday, or smoke a joint on a Tuesday. I know people who take a few pills at a rave every six months.

Am I one of them? No. Does it look like they have fun? Yes. Are they addicted or junkies or bad people? No.

Also in my experience I've found to this to be untrue. Many people misusing drugs especially non injectable drugs are not fully informed on the harm they cause or the damage it can cause them. This is especially true the younger the person using is. So much of harm reduction work is also education based. Eg. Why it's important to smoke rather than inject and the difference it can have to someone's safety.

Is it ok if they’re old and ugly?

What about ugly people in their 30s?

The staying clean from rehab rates are shockingly bad.

@RegretMisery

"Put down the pipe."

Not sure how that is relevant to my comment. Are you trying to imply that I am currently on drugs?!? I'm at work. So no I'm not. It's not something I do generally any more as I am old. And I've never smoked any drugs via a pipe anyhow.

I know a lady who used to go regularly to get cannabis from a street dealer for her daughter, who had MS. It was the only thing that helped with her pain. The poor woman was in her late 70s and couldn't get any help from the NHS at all.

In answer to the question in your OP, some US prosecutors are starting to prosecute drug dealers with manslaughter. Or so I heard on a Times podcast the other day about the fentanyl crisis.

Drugs are for mugs ugly old people!

Based.

didn't realise we were in a bad faith competition