What makes you middle class?

[Singlemum90]

So a comment from my mother a few years ago has stuck with me ever since then really. When I was no longer a single mum, and found myself a little less skint, she said 'oh it's so good now you're just a nice middle class mum, I'm so proud of you'

Aside from her clearly looking down at me before this, and deciding class was what defined how she felt about me- I have often wondered what made her decide I was middle class at this point.

How do you define it? (I feel it's very subjective) Is it what family you are born into? Your income?(And what income makes the 'classes'? Is it a specific job type? The way you stick your finger out when you drink tea?
Or is it just a shitty way to divide people and how they feel about themselves?

How old are you? I am forty. I love how you think you know my tastes, why do you keep banging on about ballet and opera? I do love ballet, because I used to do it professionally, but I'm not into opera especially? You keep going on and on about education level, as well, when I never mentioned that. I think that class (in the UK) is a complicated web of social signifiers. Accent, personal taste, education level, wealth, all play a part. You were the one who jumped on me shouting that I 'wasn't upper middle class' because I am not super wealthy, which is frankly bizarre and also makes me think that you do have something to prove. If I'm honest, if we met I suspect I would place you as lower middle.

The working class and the upper class have more in common both don’t give a f@ck what the middle class think.

Im in my mid 30s - you seem a lot older than 40. Your attitudes are more aligned to the attitudes of people I know in their 60s, to be honest.

I keep “banging on” about ballet and opera because you keep banging on about having “upper middle class” tastes without actually quantifying what they are - but yes, I’m clearly correct about what you believe these “middle class” tastes are since you have confirmed you are in fact a ballet fan 😂

You did mention education level. You said one of the thing that makes you middle class is your education level. I can show you, if you like? Even in the post I’m quoting now you state that education is a factor, so I’m not sure quite why you are picking up on that point.

You are talking in circles here. One minute you are stating that you are upper middle class because you are educated and like “upper middle class things” but the Kardashians are working class because they are “new money” (they aren’t), they are “uneducated” (they aren’t) because you don’t like their “culture” yet Paris Hilton is upper class, despite being culturally on par with the Kardashians.

Why would you class yourself as of a higher social class than I? What accent do I have? What are my personal tastes? What is my education level? What is my net worth? How do these measures compare to yours?

The BBC Great British Class Survey puts me as established middle class.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/2013/newsspec_5093/index.stm

I just did that test. It put me as 'elite' which I don't even think I am, but if you are going by it, then I am indeed of a higher social class than you. I suspect that we both knew that.

ETA. As for my 'seeming older' I was brought up by my very upper class grandparents. I think that they would see me as a failure because I didn't marry a peer! I preferred to carve out my own path, though.

To be honest, you just sound like a Tory. a truly classy person doesn’t look down on others.

I don’t consider myself to be middle class at all, which was my original point. Out of curiosity, could you clarify Why you think I’m lower middle class?

@LovelyTheresa I can't believe you are only 40!

You have the haughty, chippy attitude of a much older woman who is totally jaded and deeply dissatisfied that life has not served you with what you think you deserve. It oozes from your language, attitudes and opinions. Your every word drips with faux plummy accent vibes.

So I'm sticking with my bet that places you firmly as lower middle with WC heritage and desperate to rewrite your own identity. Trouble is you just can't be something you're not and class is partly a very intangible thing, but people just KNOW! The way I just know you are not elite or even Upper middle! (That quiz btw is BS - how much do you earn, who do you hang out with and what hobbies have you. That is not sufficiently to make a definitive judgement.)

Perhaps I am completely wrong and you are just deeply unpleasant for some other reason not related to frustration around your provenance and identity, but why else would you be on an anonymous thread banging on an on about your MC 'tastes' and insisting other people are 'common'? 🤔 Thou dost protest too much!!

Your insistence on markers like education and income. Your stereotypical talk about 'Opera and Ballet'. It all screams first generation middle class.
ETA. If you think it is 'unclassy' to look down on others, why did you jump on my first post to let me know I wasn't upper class? Surely that wasn't very classy behaviour? That said, you now say you aren't claiming to be middle class......which I think is a good call. I put you at upper working, in fact the judgement that @Superlambaanana has placed on me is probably far more accurately aimed at you.

Education and income are of course markers of social class! You even brought up your own education and the education of others when you were deciding on what category to put people in, yet when I do it it then it makes me lower middle vs when you do it as upper middle class 😂😂

My parents are lower income than me and less educated, however I’d definitely say they have a more “middle class” outlook than me. Their tastes are more “classy”, their cultural activities are more traditional - their values are probably more aligned with yours than mine. Does that make them more middle class than I am?

God knows. None of you are really middle class, I suspect.

Being on mumsnet. lol.
Class is such bullshit. I think the range of middle has broadened out. Like most people would claim they were.
I feel like the underclass personally. But some of my family are multimillionaires. Not that they'd lend me a fiver, lol. Nor would I ask.
I think university education might be the traditional marker for it but God knows at this point.

A minute ago I was? Have I been downgraded now?

@Notmyuser she's away to aggressively iron her tea towels. Sorry, gless closths.

“You keep going on about education level, when I never mentioned that”

Your first response to me:

My income, my lifestyle, my sensibilities. I actually consider myself upper middle class although my income doesn't really put me in that bracket. My education level and tastes, however, do. Also my accent, I sound even posher than I am.

At 17:33 today, you state:

” If I'm honest, if we met I suspect I would place you as lower middle”

At 18:53, you state:

”I put you at upper working”

Can we safely conclude you are talking shite now?

No, we can't. As I have tried to explain, class is a tapestry. It isn't any one thing. My education level is only to first degree standard, but I come from a cultured household, I had the classics read to me at a young age, etc. I was just sort of steeped in culture, as are most upper class people.

Upper working, lower middle. Potayto-pottahto. You might be one or the other, but I picture you with drawn on eyebrows, fake nails, you might wear fake tan but not slather it on like a chav, and have a sort of interdermnitate accent which certainly isn't posh but isn't rough, either. I am generally to be found make up free except for BB cream, eyebrows left alone, clothes expensive but rather carelessly thrown on, and despite my age am asked for ID to the point where I don't leave my house without a passport. My best friend says I have Jane Birkin vibes, and that's accurate. If I had said that to begin with, maybe you would have understood more where I was coming from.

Only one degree? I consider that to be quite lower class. I’ve got two, one a masters, and one postgrad. I was also read classics from a young age, played instruments (one paternal grandparent played in an orchestra, as did my mum. I was shit at it though) and we very much spent our weekends doing “cultural” activities like stately homes, art galleries, despite my parents being very much working class.

That being said I find all that shite boring and I wouldn’t inflict it on my own children. I’d much rather go to an indie/rock music gig, or a comedy night. They read modern classics - none of your irrelevant hoity toitt bullshit.

Your picture of me couldn’t be further from the truth; not because I hold any value judgement on any of those things; simply because I can’t be arsed to do my makeup or tan.

Im not sure why you can’t leave the house without your passport - I just use a driving licence? Seems extreme to take a passport, to be honest. Also, I tend not to buy alcohol every day either. Do you? Is that maybe why you are not able to follow a coherent chain of thought? I hope your “very upper class” grandparents can invest in some rehab for you if so 💐.

I also look young for my age but that is absolutely not a class marker, and it’s utterly bizarre that you think it is 😂

tiger bread, high whiny voice, frumpy longish dresses, victorian villa, husband has a beard and makes websites/ DJs hiphop music for his uni mates who also make websites, introducing pesto to lower class schoolgate mums, showing off that you holiday in the south of France rather than Butlins and that's why mummy has to work dahling, marrying your first cousin, getting outraged by anything that's got nothing to do with you, wearing pushbike helmets, getting even more whiny when lower class mums' kids do much better than yours academically.

sorry had to get that off my chest 🤣

just in case i wasn't clear enough , I'm not middle class 🤣

Just reading along, fascinated..................

"I had the classics read to me at a young age"



That actually made me spill my popcorn.

Same!

By that measure half of Britain is middle class.

Bored, but middle class.

I learnt to read, and then I read whatever I WANTED TO READ. Much easier.

@Notmyuser she's definitely NOCD 🤣

🤣

I grew up on a council estate but I'm now pretty well off. Own home paid outright etc.

I think the idea of becoming middle class is mostly just a way to get people to extend credit for things they can't afford. Nice cars on finance, a cripplingly high mortgage for a house in the 'better' area, furniture that costs more than they really should have spent etc.
In actuality I only really see middle class people as those who make money from others. For example landlords, business owners, those who work for themselves and choose how much work they do and who they work for (I'm aware anybody can freelance and life pay cheque to pay cheque but that's not who in talking about here). I feel the notion that the things you own or places you attend define what class you are as quite silly. All it does is tricks people into spending money they don't need to in order to appear better off than they are.

I know a few very very wealthy old money sorts and they don't give two hoots abouts anything. One buys the cheap vegetables and gin from Lidl and says it no different really to any other gin. The other, when not at work, wears jumpers and trousers with holes in. They have millions in the bank (one of these people even owns castles). They literally don't care about anything lol

My family had an odd collection of books. But after I read HMS Ulysses, I also read my dad's History of the War at Sea (multiple volumes) for the Admiralty account of convoy PQ17. Same story, told differently.