This punishment is overly harsh

[Whatafustercluck]

Pupil 1 took some test tubes from the science department.

Pupil 2 smashed the test tubes (deliberately) on the floor.

Pupil 3 retrieved a piece of glass from the floor and threw it back down.

Witnessed by a member of staff and a member of the public. School investigations appear to confirm varying levels of involvement/ culpability among the three pupils.

All three have an hour after school detention. All three will be on report, having had 3 behaviour points added to their records. Science teacher freely admits that pupil 3 was not directly involved in taking the test tubes and that there were 'varying roles and levels' of involvement in the incident.

Pupil 3 is my son. I've said he will need to do the punishment, and there would be no case to answer if he had just not got involved at all, no room for misunderstandings etc. We've spoken before about being guilty by association and making better choices. I don't intend to appeal it, firstly because I don't believe it would change anything and secondly because I take the view that I shouldn't undermine a teacher.

But there is a large part of me that believes that differing levels of culpability require differing levels of punishment.

AIBU?

I think your DS is the only one who should have the hour’s detention, for being silly and easily led into joining in. I would expect the other 2 to have a more severe sanction, as they stole school equipment, destroyed it and created a hazard for others. I hope your DS stays well away from those idiots in the future.

The school is correct.

Your son knows it's not right to pick up glass and throw it back down again, so he should be punished for that. Whether he was the instigator or not, they can't allow kids to be smashing glass in class

He still smashed glass on the floor, meaning someone has to clear it up & there is a risk someone could injure themselves. It’s an hours detention & some behaviour points. He will think twice before acting next time so it’s not a bad thing.

All three were involved and all three did something that contributed to the misdemeanour.

I’m glad you’re supporting the school.

Because teachers haven’t got enough to do without coming up with three different levels of punishments to deal with three different oikes.

@Whatafustercluck I would agree that there need to be 2 levels of punishment, but the level for your DC is appropriate. If he'd cut himself and you'd had to go in to school and take him to hospital, would you still say he should be treated less harshly? He needs to pick his friends better.

I’m also surprised that the other two don’t have more serious punishments.

Your son did something stupid and potentially dangerous. It doesn’t seem overly harsh.

I think your son deserves the punishment he got. The other two deserve a more severe punishment.

I think the punishment given to your son was probably appropriate but possibly a bit lenient, and the other two should have received a much harsher sanction.

Picking up glass and throwing it is incredibly dangerous and stupid. The punishment fits the crime.

They don't have to come up with anything. They have a menu of options that they can, and do, frequently apply depending on the level of pupil involvement in various school related incidents.

Yes, but that's not what I asked. My question was whether there should be differing punishments reflecting differing levels of involvement

No , it’s much easier to give them all the same sanction than picking apart who did what as they were all basically involved in the same incident .

I'd probably tell him that getting cut is a natural consequence of playing with glass. I certainly wouldn't be suing the school.

To take this to the extreme, if the same situation was around an attack on someone, the police and courts would take a similar view, if you are there you are involved.
next time if he sees trouble he needs to walk in the opposite direction. And find different friends.

@Whatafustercluck

The other two need a harsher punishment, stealing & deliberately breaking school property & causing a safety hazard.

DS - for me depends if he threw it back down on the existing pile of broken glass or extended the risk of someone else by throwing it away from there. If it was the first, then no punishment, just a stern word about not picking up or throwing glass & not to get even remotely caught up in others bad behaviour. If it was the second then the punishment is fitting. )while the others get a harsher punishment)

was just thinking this! Under some joint enterprise convictions just being friends with these boys would bring about a custodial sentence…

I've often spoken to him about his choice in friends. He's a good kid, on course for 6/7 grades, but is definitely silly when he gets with others. So from that perspective, hopefully the punishment will serve its purpose and act as a deterrent for the future.

Pupil 1's mother is apparently going into school to argue against the punishment.

Is it your son’s account of the incident you’re relating? I’d be interested to know what account the other two boys gave.

My question was whether there should be differing punishments reflecting differing levels of involvement

I don't think so. It's a very good lesson on not getting involved IMO. It was a whole lot of stupid behaviour all round really.

Pupil 1 being the one who stole school equipment and broke it in a way that potentially endangered others? Good luck to her with that!

All corroborated, including by the witnesses.

Yeah, I know 🙄 😁

The school, rightly IMO, are making a point that if you choose to associate with kids who are breaking the rules, and you stand by and watch it happen rather than removing yourself from the situation, you risk ending up in just as much trouble. At my school we talk a lot about being "a bystander" and the risks of following the crowd even when you know what's happening is wrong. Like pp I am surprised that all they got was an hours detention so your DS should consider himself lucky.

I'm surprised that the sanctions for the other two weren't more severe to be honest.

The sanction for your son's involvement is fair and reasonable to me.

I'm not surprised the mum of the first child is going in to argue with school about it. Most children, even silly and occasionally disruptive one, don't go out their way to steal and damage school property. The ones who behave like that typically have parents who will argue with school and enable the child's behaviour.