This punishment is overly harsh

[Whatafustercluck]

Pupil 1 took some test tubes from the science department.

Pupil 2 smashed the test tubes (deliberately) on the floor.

Pupil 3 retrieved a piece of glass from the floor and threw it back down.

Witnessed by a member of staff and a member of the public. School investigations appear to confirm varying levels of involvement/ culpability among the three pupils.

All three have an hour after school detention. All three will be on report, having had 3 behaviour points added to their records. Science teacher freely admits that pupil 3 was not directly involved in taking the test tubes and that there were 'varying roles and levels' of involvement in the incident.

Pupil 3 is my son. I've said he will need to do the punishment, and there would be no case to answer if he had just not got involved at all, no room for misunderstandings etc. We've spoken before about being guilty by association and making better choices. I don't intend to appeal it, firstly because I don't believe it would change anything and secondly because I take the view that I shouldn't undermine a teacher.

But there is a large part of me that believes that differing levels of culpability require differing levels of punishment.

AIBU?

The school is right.
You're right in supporting them.
Your son will hopefully learn a valuable lesson in not being easily led.

He picked up a piece of glass and threw it. Your son was as dumb as the other two.

I agree. The other 2 should have at least a day in inclusion (possibly your son too!)

You don't need to worry about the punishment for the other children. Your son did wrong and was appropriately punished. Don't be distracted by your concerns over how that compares to someone else's punishment. What will that achieve? Focus on making sure your son understands where he went wrong and to choose better friends.

I'm trying to work out if it was all "one incident" - in that the three of them -went ooh lets take some test tubes - where one committed the theft, or at least brought them to group as "look what I've got", the second pupil escalated with breaking them and your DS joined in with throwing glass around.

Or if the two others nicked the tubes and threw them, with your DS coming along later to join them in throwing glass around.

If its the first, then they all took part even if they all had separate "crimes".
If I broke down a door, someone else nicked the tv, and another drove the getaway car - it wasn't just the guy that nicked the tv that's the burglar....

If its the second...maybe that's a little more nuanced in terms of involvement, but this a school not a criminal justice court - nor is his actions in isolation of "just" throwing a bit of glass - he's chosen to join in.

I think there should be different levels and also that your son's punishment is the only appropriate one. Stealing and breaking school equipment I would expect to get time in inclusion at least. Lol at student 1's mother. I would just love it if they reconsidered to give him a harsher punishment. I'd be so tempted!

It's fair that they all get the same punishment.

It's appropriate that they were all given the same punishment imo.

They were all twatting about being stupid, who actually did what is fairly irrelevant (because nobody got hurt) as they were clearly all winding each other up and egging each other on.

Hopefully next time you're DS will just walk away.

Then he needs this punishment. One day he's going to be on a night out and needs to know when to walk away.

They all sound equally irresponsible to me.

Pupil 1 stole equipment that didn't belong to him.

Pupils 2 and 3 both engaged in dangerous behaviour.

All three of them deserve to be punished and I don't think the punishment for your ds is unreasonable. He could have stayed out of it but chose not to. Hopefully he will learn from his mistake.

Depends a bit whether the third pupil was part of a group who were all involved, or if he was a passer by who picked up the glass on a whim.

If part of the group then he’s right to be equally punished, in exactly the same way as if when he’s an adult he becomes a burglar and his friend burglar murders someone then sets fire to the house - both burglars would be charged with murder and arson, under the law of joint enterprise. Start educating your child now OP that society can and will punish him for the transgressions of those he hangs out with.

What is odd to me is how mild the punishment is. I wish state schools were allowed to suspend / expell pupils more easily. Theft + criminal damage would get a kid expelled from many private schools.

And hour’s detention should be for minor things like rudeness / not doing homework. Theft + criminal damage merits a much stronger response.

My mum always taught me that you’re guilty by association so if friends behave badly, remove myself (this was mainly in relation to a friend shop lifting).

I would say you’re focusing on the wrong things here. School punishments are made by those with a full picture so I’d imagine there’s more on going behaviour issues with all three.

If it was a case of one person did a shoplifting or burglary, other person smashes stolen stuff, third person then causes further damage and danger with debris of stolen stuff, all in public view...they'd all be guilty if they were all together at the time. Though I'd think the one who stole it would or should face a stronger punishment.
I guess it's a case of learning to be the bigger person, and not follow idiotic behaviour. So it's a good lesson learned.

Your mum was right, and that's what I tell ds too.

But there's not more ongoing behaviour issues with ds. Pupil 1 is not ds's friend, they don't hang around together. And we've just had parents evening where a couple of the teachers complimented ds on being a kind, polite boy. His form tutor reports no concerns, communication between us is good.

It's the old "Fly with the Craws get shot with craws ". Wee lesson for your son moving on and good that you are supporting the school decision in his eyes .

Retrieved glass and threw it down? What does that even mean? He was playing with smashed up glass and being stupid, he joined in.

To answer your original question, no, it's not overly harsh. He threw broken glass on the floor.
Whether the others should have had a more harsh punishment is another matter.

I think the punishments are very minor for all of them. I don't think there should be varying levels of punishment, I think everyone involved should be punished - this isn't going to prison it's a school. It will put others off thinking about getting involved. They all decided to do this so they all deserve to be punished.

When they've already got one parent kicking off over 3 behaviour points and a detention? No chance.

I'm sorry, but if I were involved in imposing sanctions for this there is no way I'd be faffing about deciding whether just picking up and throwing down glass you'd watched someone else steal and someone else break, was a teeny bit less bad than breaking it and stealing it yourself, so perhaps that one should have 5 minutes less of a detention than the other two....or something. All three boys were involved in something really stupid and potentially dangerous and if it were my DS I'd be welcoming the sanction in the hopes it would make him think twice about his behaviour, or if he wasn't 'that bad' then to reconsider the company he kept.

Then it might be a lesson in wrong place wrong time, life can be unfair but prove the teachers wrong.

Dd3 got a detention on day 3 of year 7 in the new secondary for “forgetting” a book she didn’t realise had to be taken in every day. Dd2 got a detention for chewing gum - she’s not a fan of gum and is adamant she was chewing her tongue. She also got one for not taking her pe kit to school when she was on crutches and the dr had advised no sport (I did argue that one because - how was she supposed to carry her school bag and pe bag while struggling on crutches?). But sometimes schools make weird calls and I’d save my energy for the bigger issues.

Parent of kid 1 thinks her kid has been treated harshly and is going into school to argue the point. Parent of kid 3 still thinks hers is a “good kid” just led astray by others silliness. Both sound like the have blinkers on to the fact they are raising hooligans. Poor teachers

Hmm they've all been very silly, I think your son's behaviour might be the most dangerous though? Picking up and throwing broken glass around school could have really hurt someone, or himself. Obviously pinching test tubes isn't great, but it's not actually dangerous. Good that you're supporting the school, your son was lucky nobody got hurt.

Yup. If it isn't enough that teachers have to deal with this sort of stupidity and worse on a daily basis, they now have parents waffling on about degrees of culpability and arguing technicalities as though it's a miscarriage of criminal justice rather than three boys being kept in after school.

I’m going to guess that your son is a good kid, the other two are a pain in the arse, and the school are treating him as equally culpable because they want to reinforce the risks to him of falling in with the wrong crowd etc.

my school did this.