The letter J

[CampsieGlamper]

As the letter H seems to be a good topic of conversation on its pronunciation(!!!) what about J?
Do you pronounce is as "jay" or as "j-eye" and is the pronunciation as hidebound in sectarianism or class-ism as poor and humble/umble H?

What?! It goes:

Aithch
Eye
Jay
Kay

Never heard it pronounced anything other than J-ay

Jay now but Jai when I was growing up in Scotland.

Surely everyone says 'Jay' ???
confused now

Growing up I pronounced the letter J “Jott”. Hopefully this was helpful to you, OP.

Exactly this. In my Scottish childhood we said Jai. I call the letter Jay now, but if I'm going through the alphabet, either out loud or in my head, the it's always

"Haitch eye jai kay"

having learnt it like that!

Agree it's a regional thing. So this thread will really just highlight where people are from, rather than 'class', imo

Again, an education level thing. It is pronounced 'jay' but some people in Scotland say 'jai'. 'Jay' is correct.

Though some middle class southerners think any accent other than RP is wrong.

I'm slightly confused as I'm another who has only heard J pronounced one way - I think?

So to me it always sounds like 'pay' or 'way'.

Is the 'Jai' version pronounced like 'eye' and 'tie' then?

I'm a northerner and work all over the world, including Scotland(!) so I'm used to varied accents other than RP, but this different pronunciation of "J" is a new one to me - interesting!

There's no 'correct' accent!

I learned it as jai and still say it when reciting the alphabet. Also in Scotland.

I still say jye when reciting the alphabet or speaking to someone Scottish but when I am in the phone to someone not Scottish I say ‘jay’. My alphabet is aitch, eye, jye.

In Scotland it's very common to pronounce J not as Jay but to rhyme with I - pronounced eye.

Again, an education level thing. It is pronounced 'jay' but some people in Scotland say 'jai'. 'Jay' is correct.

Jay is correct to you. Jai is correct to many people in Scotland. No one "correct" is better than another. Those of us who are Scottish but have lived outwith Scotland are aware that people in other parts of the world don't recognise "jai", so default to using "jay" instead. That doesn't mean that people who still use "jai" are in some way lesser, badly educated or wrong.

Glad you had fun sneering though.

I thought only Brummies said jai!

I noticed the "outwith" in your post. That's something I never hear, or read, other than from Scottish customers.

I really don't know why that's so seldom used anywhere else as it's perfectly descriptive and it's not truly synonymous with any other word. It's like the rest of us are missing out on what is actually a very useful word!

Agree on the use of outwith - and I admit I used it deliberately!

It's a better word than outside when you're talking about concepts rather than places - outwith the remit of this committee, you might be asked to work outwith your contracted hours, that's outwith my responsibilities.

Yes you could use beyond, or outside, but outwith is just... better.

I can't picture (or hear in my head) this Scottish 'Jai'.
Does anyone have an example video or audio?

"Jei" to rhyme with "hay", "they" etc.

Google says: Its usual name in English is jay (pronounced /ˈdʒeɪ/), with a now-uncommon variant jy /ˈdʒaɪ/

So it looks like the j-eye variant is dying out.

There may well be different regional variations apart from that, but I doubt any others are shibboleths and derived from a religious divide provoking sectarian hatred.

There is no correct accent, but there is a correct pronunciation.

@Misthios

It's a better word than outside when you're talking about concepts rather than places

Exactly that, yes.

I received an email from a client only this week talking about stock levels in one of their manufacturing facilities and the rest of their supply network - "there are circa 3,000 pallets outwith the Aberdeen plant."

No other word would do it: if they said "outside" it would very likely be interpreted as outdoors, getting wet in the rain. It would have to be "not including what's actually on-site in Aberdeen", or similar.

It's a brilliant word. 😁

I'm not Scottish or in Scotland but have picked it up from MN language threads and agree it's a magnificent word!

It was on mumsnet l learnt (learned?) that outwith is generally a Scottish word.

I have no idea. I hate to hear j-eye though and while we are here jamp (shudders)

J rhymes with eye. That's what I was taught in school, it's not a class thing and has bugger all to do with sectarianism. Not everywhere in Scotland pronounces it like this, despite what many mumsnetters think, Scotland is a country with many different regions and not just the one big village