Mixed feelings about WASPI victory

[Fauxflowersnoflowers]

Early 40s here, so this doesn't as such directly affect me, but I've been intrigued by the story about the WASPI campaign and done a bit of reading around it and I'm still confused.

The changes apparently were in the public sphere since as early as 1995 and could have been known about. Many women were aware and did take financial steps to address the changes. The current case seems to centre around whether they should have been personally informed, not was the change fair.

WASPI just said on Women's Hour that they don't object to the equalisation of the pension age, but then callers were objecting to having to work longer and not getting a good retirement, so the two arguments seem to contradiction each other

Also, it seems misunderstood that a compensation payment would be a full reinbursement of the "lost" pension, from my reading it's more likely to be a fixed amount to recognise the fact they should have received a letter. Although again, it appears many did, just not everyone, so who gets the compensation? All of them or just some?

I suppose the other question is how do we pay this? Public services are already stretched badly, childcare costs are crippling and there is a bit of a worry for me that the funds to pay this are going to come out of other areas that will just make the loves of younger women harder and push their pension ages even further back, maybe into their 70s.

Feel really conflicted about it. On one hand kudos to the women for getting this far, but in the other it feels like a really clear example of the importance of properly understanding your own finances and educating yourself about your pension planning.

What you and other posters seem to forget is that most WASPIs will have children in their 20s and 30s so they’re totally aware of all the difficulties facing the younger generation. Who do you think supported those children when they went to university after the same government escalated tuition fees? Who do you think helps out with child care when the nursery fees are astronomical?

The heart of this is that women were not given enough time to plan after the government literally changed the goalposts in 2011. I’m not expecting to get the £40k that I lost because of that change. But I’m glad the ombudsman has recognised it was wrong and I hope it prevents anything similar happening to my daughters.

My generation has plenty to feel guilty about. Not fighting hard enough to save the planet when we might have made a difference keeps me awake at night. But £1,500 for a recognised injustice sounds fair enough to me.

That was how the old scheme worked, if they are only getting the basic pension they must have been contracted out into another pension scheme which got some of their NI money. I worked for some years without being in a private pension scheme (DH became disabled after an accident and took years to get that sorted out so I had a baby a toddler and two at senior school so a pension was something I couldn't afford for those years.) My pension under the old scheme is higher than the new scheme. Would those getting the basic old pension want to give up the proportion of their private pensions that was based on their contracted out status?

The state pension will not be abolished. The government increased the state pension.
Most people do not have enough of a private pension to replace the state pension. It is top up so people can live okay lives.
If the state pension was means tested it would make sense for most people in their fifties to cash in their private pension and spend it.
Some kind of pension has always existed since we have had civilisation. Before the national state pension local cities and villages paid out small pensions or had workhouses or similar. Because most old people can not support themselves in old age.
Personally I think the government to work, and once you no longer can to die unless you are well off.

Born in the late 50s and retired at 60 because I was self employed in a physical job and a caring for a frail very elderly relative plus some childcare for GC and I was exhausted. It would have been wonderful to get my state pension but I've hung on drawing down some of my small private pension and savings.My choice - supported by DH who still works but very variable income.I accept as I had more notice than those born in 54 .I accept we have to be more frugal but find plenty of things to enjoy in retirement And I will get the higher pension rate so I personally don't think I should get compensation funded by those younger and still working.My own parents received a pension almost as long as they were working. People are living longer.Our DDs are having a much tougher time I feel getting houses, juggling childcare costs and spiralling bills.Plus less generous pension schemes. I do appreciate some women are really struggling and maybe me but a lot of my friends-particularly those who worked in the public sector retired a bit earlier anyway and now draw down pensions our DCs could only dream off.I know that won't be the opinion of many WASPIs.

@Iwasafool It is not about being contracted out. Everyone older unless they paid extra NI (you could for some years), gets a lower pension. The state pension was lower, and when the new increased rate came in it did not apply to people already retired.

I never said it was I was responding to the mini thread which was about a WASPI teachers pension.

The government want to bring back what used to happen with women caring for elderly relatives. Both my mother and MIL did this. It will not happen. People will be working much longer. Especially those who had children older. How can you retire in your sixties when your children are still at school or university? Few could afford that.

With you being such an expert I thought you would have known that it was not a ruling but a finding. Attention to detail. Glad you’re not my tax adviser.

The DWP are perfectly capable of contacting each and every person if they think they have done something wrong . All they had to do was write to every person involved and explain things clearly .Especially the speeding up portion . They did not and the independent body has said this is wrong . So of course compensation should be paid .

I never had a work pension until it became compulsory . I am still going to work after my state pension hits this month .

The proportion of older people compared with younger people is very different now compared with the past so I don't think you can know that because there was a pension before there will be in the future for anyone but the very elderly and frail. The population is aging. People only used to live for only a few years if at all after retirement.

Yes I am talking about a minority but that doesn't mean we should brush them aside in this discussion. To ignore them because they're a 'minority' just adds to the oppression that they already experience in their life. I am also very aware of the lack of safety nets for these people as I have experienced the impacts of that within my own family.

But how much? Normally to receive compensation you would have to demonstrate that not receiving a letter lead to a financial or some other loss and yet that doesn't appear to be the case for most people.

This is a completely insane response.

People would read it. Not everyone, but it would mean there is no excuse to not know. Currently there is a huge excuse for not knowing things.. the government doesn't tell us what the changes are other than occasionally via the mass media which many of us do not engage with on a daily basis! If I go on holiday for two weeks, it's hardly acceptable I miss a story about the pension age changing, is it? It'd also SAVE the government money from not having to fight cases like the WASPI case because they could say "well, you knew years in advance because it was in the official pamphlet sent to every house".

Gosh how clever you are 🙄
So despite lower pay for women, zero childcare, having to leave when pregnant,no private pension provision and crucially zero or incorrect information given by the DWP plus the decision accelerate the changes

You would have made better choices if you were due to retire at the same time?
Many of those choices simply didn't exist for women

She didn’t say it was. The point is that the women who have died won’t see compensation. Some of the comments here are batshit.

I’ve just claimed my state pension and have never received the regular letters you mention - always had to request updates and never got the supposedly routine letter telling me to claim my state pension. I didn’t realise you had to actually claim it until a friend asked me if I’d done it yet.

I am 59 and never had a letter about my state pension. Not one.

@KaKarensgoldleggings better clever than sarcastic eh. Choices were more limited. Women had less options. But let's not pretend that there wasn't the option to return to work once the children. People might have chosen to not return, but the reality is, most women are liberated from the intense childrearing years by their 40s. Which was plenty of time to do something about earning money.

My Grandmother's both found work after raising 4/5 children and made provision for old age. My MiL is a WASPI is still working and retrained.as a nurse in her 40s. I'm not pretending I'm clever. I just didn't buy the guff that some posters where throwing about that those that are calling out lack of personal responsibility, hate women.

It absolutely was for that reason, among others. Men tended to marry younger women and it kind of self equalised their retirement. It was a different era.

@MalvernValentine Yeah I should not have spent all that time fighting for women's rights and instead just looked after myself. Fuck everyone else.

I'm 66. I had 3 children and worked when they started school. They all went to a child minder after school. Mortgage interest rates were in double figures at times. However we didn't have mobile phone bills, gym memberships, Netflix etc. We also didn't holiday abroad.

Well that pretty much is your PRIMARY responsibility as an adult. No one wants you to fight their cause at your own expense.

Not that that is even remotely what I said. It's quite a jump you've made. My point was that no, younger women don't hate women over 60. I also have said WASPI women should have been informed. But there has to be accountability. ANYONE who expected/expects to retire at 60 with just NI contributions is sadly setting themselves up for pain, and that was even the case back then.

Rubbish. It was never about the age increase, it was about the ideological acceleration of it that caused very real problems for those who had planned in ignorance of the changes. It’s ridiculous to say that because changes were in the public domain that everyone was aware of them. Such important changes could and should have been communicated promptly and fully to all those involved, not left for them to find out for themselves. The onus was on DWP and they were incompetent. And that incompetence wasn’t just about the failure to notify, it was about wrong and misleading information given to these women after the event. Hence the compensation - not for loss of pension, but for the shambles the government made of ensuring that everyone was aware of the changes and was advised accordingly.