Mixed feelings about WASPI victory

[Fauxflowersnoflowers]

Early 40s here, so this doesn't as such directly affect me, but I've been intrigued by the story about the WASPI campaign and done a bit of reading around it and I'm still confused.

The changes apparently were in the public sphere since as early as 1995 and could have been known about. Many women were aware and did take financial steps to address the changes. The current case seems to centre around whether they should have been personally informed, not was the change fair.

WASPI just said on Women's Hour that they don't object to the equalisation of the pension age, but then callers were objecting to having to work longer and not getting a good retirement, so the two arguments seem to contradiction each other

Also, it seems misunderstood that a compensation payment would be a full reinbursement of the "lost" pension, from my reading it's more likely to be a fixed amount to recognise the fact they should have received a letter. Although again, it appears many did, just not everyone, so who gets the compensation? All of them or just some?

I suppose the other question is how do we pay this? Public services are already stretched badly, childcare costs are crippling and there is a bit of a worry for me that the funds to pay this are going to come out of other areas that will just make the loves of younger women harder and push their pension ages even further back, maybe into their 70s.

Feel really conflicted about it. On one hand kudos to the women for getting this far, but in the other it feels like a really clear example of the importance of properly understanding your own finances and educating yourself about your pension planning.

I’d rather he had it than leave it with the government who will undoubtedly waste it on some nonsense like Rwanda

Indeed - or HS2 - they have found billions for that and will keep pouring billions into it - a completely unnecessary vanity project that benefits so few people.

@BIossomtoes

Err no I mean that the Govt doesn't pay out any compensation at all and instead spend it on education and mental health.

If the Govt is legally obliged to pay out the compensation then I would prefer it to be paid for through cuts to the existing state pension rather than cuts in other public services.

@BIossomtoes

Good to be back on the familiar ground of being on the other side of the debate to you!😀

Absolutely this!

It isn’t paying them back for financial loss.
It is compensation for maladministration and unclear communication by the DWP.

The DWP are still unclear with their communication! I'm a waspi who is just due first state pension. I did not receive the letter you are supposed to get 4 months before to tell you that you need to apply (just in case anybody else presumes you receive state pension automatically at the designated age). Just as I never received a letter about the changes to state pension age. Fortunately somebody told me who was a similar age so I applied online. Oh, and I'm fortunate to be well enough to still be working and paying taxes towards the younger women's free childcare hours and maternity rights despite never having those privileges myself and don't begrudge it!!

You are wrong. The DWP failed to adequately communicate changes to women’s state pension age and this has affected thousands of women. In the 70s women had a greater tendency to be in part-time work, lower average earnings and a greater tendency to work in service sectors where pension provision was less prevalent. Times have changed.

Teenage marriages were accepted then...so yes - teenage pregnancies.

“Paid for by the taxes of women who are still in work but will be lucky to get a state pension at all or paid for by cuts in public services.”

I pay taxes as well.

Some things I don’t want my tax money to be used for.
Rwanda Scheme,
HS2,
Boris Johnsons lawyers
The Royal Family,
Every investigation this government is under,
Duck Houses
MPs meals, drinks and second homes
BBC licence fee
War
Rishi Sunaks helicopter
Liz Trusses catering,
Local Council members pay rise.

Something I am happy for my taxes to be used for

A group of women who have found to be unfairly treated.

I'm intrigued by how many of the women complaining about the WASPI are giving these long and incredibly explanations of their retirement finances, while at the same time claiming that they mysteriously failed to read or watch the news in the 10 years or so leading up to their retirement age.

We are all aware that motherhood creates difficulties for women's careers, but the solution is state assistance targeted specifically towards mothers, not earlier retirement for women in general.

my issue is in that calling the pension a benefit allows the government to argue that it is discretionary, or that it isn’t something people should expect, when it is paid from contributory payments by individuals through their working life. Therefore, it opens the door for the arguments we’ve seen here around intergenerational blame - ie boomers are taking everything, they don’t know how hard it is, instead of recognising that they too have paid in, and made decisions on info they were given at the time.

I'm sorry but the state pension IS a benefit. It's not "called" one. It is one.

The UK state pension is defined benefit, not defined contribution. It's not a pot that you "pay into."

I mean that the Govt doesn't pay out any compensation at all and instead spend it on education and mental health.

I knew exactly what you meant. Except they won’t, will they? @Turtletumy has just posted a far from exhaustive list of ways in which the government pisses away our money. They could spend some of or all of that on education and mental health. Leaving money in the hands of the government pretty much ensures it’ll be wasted at the moment.

In 2016 a petition was submitted to parliament to stop them redesignating “state pension” as a “state benefit”. Their response is interesting amongst all this discussion about whether or not there is “entitlement”

“State Pension entitlement is based on having paid into the National Insurance scheme for a required number of years”. Note their own use of the word entitlement.

“It is, of course, also consistent with private pensions where traditional pension schemes which are earnings linked such as final salary schemes, known as ‘Defined Benefit’ schemes. The pension paid out by these schemes is defined as a ‘benefit’.

So yes, it is a benefit in the sense that all pensions are benefits but not in the sense of other state funded payments like universal credit.

The free childcare hours are a postcode lottery. My children will never get any free hours, the gov rate is too low so my kids nursery pulled out of the scheme. There are 4 nurseries in my area, not one offer funded childcare hours. They say they would cripple their businesses. Im sure the same for many across the country. Maybe we will all get compensation instead

Some very greedy stories coming out. I'm not impressed, sorry.

@Annettekurtin It has been illegal to treat part time workers less favourably than 2000. I had been working for 19 years full time by that point. It is a lot of potential pension years.
But what really affected me was that for years I had no employers contributions to my private pension. Some employers did make contributions, but it was voluntary.

That appears to be one greedy story. The Ombudsman has found in favour of WASPI women and recommended compensation.

So many people here seem outraged that they will have to work 50 years or so to get their state pension at 70. Don't they realise that when the waspi women were leaving school only 10% of people went to university, and men were over represented in that number. Therefore around 90% of the waspi women will have started to work, pay tax and NI at 15 or 16 so their working lives were at least as long as younger women.

These women were discriminated against throughout their working lives.
It was legal to pay them less than men.
Maternity leave was 12 weeks.
There were very few nurseries.
There was certainly no free childcare funded by taxpayers.
Women could be sacked for being pregnant.

I'm delighted that they are so determined not to be pushed around any more.

@user1477391263 Everyone accepts pension equalisation. That is not the issue. I am not personally affected and I understand the issues the women are talking about.

I am not a WASP woman, just slightly too young. But I left school and started full-time work at 16. I will get my state pension at 67. I will have worked for 51 years by the time I retire. This is common amongst people my age who are not middle class.
With so many adults now delaying full time work until mid or late twenties it makes sense you have to work longer to get the state pension.

Well said!

Maybe Ms R can put her WASPI compensation towards a deposit on another flat.

The compensation is estimated to be £1 or £2k.

Can you link to the case you are quoting? I am not clear where this has come from.

No - and that was disgraceful.

But there are now, and if you're currently assessed as being entitled to them, with what justification would the government suddenly temporarily or permanently take them away?

Unless I'm very much mistaken, nobody who was already claiming their pension was told they were now not old enough; it was only those who had/have not yet begun receiving it.

The reason for this, whether or not people agree with its fairness, is given as 'you aren't yet old enough under the current rules - when you are X age, you will start receiving it and then get it for life.

How could there be an equivalent to this for disability benefits that you're already receiving - unless you underwent a miraculous cure?

No need to be offensive. From what I've read over the years, it was a complete lottery whether a woman got a letter/letters or not. You got lucky; others didn't.