Mixed feelings about WASPI victory

[Fauxflowersnoflowers]

Early 40s here, so this doesn't as such directly affect me, but I've been intrigued by the story about the WASPI campaign and done a bit of reading around it and I'm still confused.

The changes apparently were in the public sphere since as early as 1995 and could have been known about. Many women were aware and did take financial steps to address the changes. The current case seems to centre around whether they should have been personally informed, not was the change fair.

WASPI just said on Women's Hour that they don't object to the equalisation of the pension age, but then callers were objecting to having to work longer and not getting a good retirement, so the two arguments seem to contradiction each other

Also, it seems misunderstood that a compensation payment would be a full reinbursement of the "lost" pension, from my reading it's more likely to be a fixed amount to recognise the fact they should have received a letter. Although again, it appears many did, just not everyone, so who gets the compensation? All of them or just some?

I suppose the other question is how do we pay this? Public services are already stretched badly, childcare costs are crippling and there is a bit of a worry for me that the funds to pay this are going to come out of other areas that will just make the loves of younger women harder and push their pension ages even further back, maybe into their 70s.

Feel really conflicted about it. On one hand kudos to the women for getting this far, but in the other it feels like a really clear example of the importance of properly understanding your own finances and educating yourself about your pension planning.

Bollocks. Firstly waspi women were born between 6 April, 1950 and 5 April, 1960, so a good proportion were of child bearing age in the 1960s. And nothing to suggest that they don’t want the same for younger women. Women did not routinely have access to workplace pensions in those days and were routinely sacked when they became pregnant. Generations of women have fought for the rights other women enjoy now. You might want to remember that before bandying the word ‘entitled’ around.

I agree, my mother was one of these women and sadly died nearly 6 years ago at 64...

I am furious for women like her who have been cheated. Obviously she will never see an apology or any money now - but I want to hear an apology and for her contemporaries to get compensation before any more die like my mum.

Was your mum not a member of the pension scheme of the public sector body she worked for?

People in the public sector get VERY good pensions and can retire at 60 on their occupational pension.
Some could even retire at 55.

How did your mum not know?

It was in all the news and we got letters.

What seems remiss is not keeping up to date with the news at the time.

I really think a lot of people here don't understand the issue. It's not the change in state pension age, it's the fact that for this group of women that the change was made with such short notice that they didn't have time to make provision. I'm 59 but have known for some time that I'm not getting my state pension until 67 so I have time to prepare. These women didn't have time to do that.

How were a large proportion of WASPI women child baring age in the 1960s if they were born in the 50s and 60s?

The bigger issue here is that many women were never paying into an occupational pension or building up a private pension, and were 'waiting' for their state pension.

Lots of men retire at 60 on occupational pensions and budget accordingly till their state pension kicks in at 66/67.

That’s only true for a very small subset of the women - about 300,000 IIRC from the report.

There was plenty of time to prepare for the rise from 60 to 65.

But even when you did pay into a private pension it still didn’t mean anything as it wasn’t protected against thieving company directors

I your pardon!! Rude.

And you’re wrong when you consider the number of people impacted it can definitely be argued to be worse… you need a drama to be made in order to understand.

I really think a lot of people here don't understand the issue. It's not the change in state pension age, it's the fact that for this group of women that the change was made with such short notice that they didn't have time to make provision. I'm 59 but have known for some time that I'm not getting my state pension until 67 so I have time to prepare. These women didn't have time to do that.

No one is asking them why they didn't know when a lot if us did know!

It's very odd that there are women on this thread who did know, yet others are saying they didn't.

It doesn't add up.

@QueenOfHiraeth says she knew and is 65/66. I knew and I'm a couple of years older.

What happens if you can’t get a job between 60-65

Ok just because you knew does mean the vast majority knew… and it’s bigger than just that, it’s the fact changes were made twice! Wish people would educate themselves on this

Their 'dues' being to retire earlier than men?

How does the saying go....when you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression.

If men had retired earlier than woman for decades in spite of women having a lower life expectancy we'd never have heard the end of it from feminists!

Savings or the benefits system, like anyone else who can’t find work

But that buys into the misogyny that women are only valued in a domestic capacity?
I'm 61, have raised 4 children as a single parent working full time, built a career, seen and spent lots of time with all my grandchildren, and am earning better than ever. I would not want to retire first years, let alone last year.

What’s that got to do with anything ? Doesn’t alter how long she had to wait to retire.

Yes it does. She could have retired from 55, even earlier in some schemes.

You've done really well but many women will be having to work full time on a small income throughout their sixties.

@Gymnopedie

"Well that's what we would have received in pension payments between the ages of 60 and 66. However as the pension age increased we had to work six more years.

So the benefit to the government is the money saved plus the additional PAYE and NI payments made by those women working. For a woman on £36,000 a year that would be an extra £42,000 over six years. So WASPI women have benefitted the coffers by anything from £50,000 to £92,000"

This is a ridiculous argument . On this basis should the women and men that now face retirement at 68 also expect compensation?

I have been paying NI today but not once did I use A&E or disability benefit- should I also be able to claim compensation?

That's not how a social welfare system works.

Born in1950 - child bearing age from 1966, born 1951, from 1967 and so on. Waspi women were born between 1950 and 1960.

Privilege? The privilege to be relied on for childcare for the next generation, and care for parents often too. The privilege of working in lower paid, often part time roles to facilitate childcare because men didn't do it. The privilege of having fewer maternity rights and even when you had the rights, the chance of being sacked/demoted/sidelined at work being higher.
I believe it was also assumed that the male part of many couples would be older than the female. This meaning they would reach pensionable age around the same time. Not sure how much of an issue that is today.

That still doesn’t make ‘a large proportion’ of WASPI women being child bearing age in the 60s.
Teenage pregnancies were so accepted then as well..

The PP said a Good proportion not a Large proportion.
In any case, not sure why you mean by ‘teenage pregnancies were so accepted then…’ but I assume you are being sarcastic? Irregardless, the fact is that although the overall birth rate peaked in 1964, teenage pregnancies continued to increase throughout the last part of the 1960s (‘accepted’ or not) and only started to decline in 1971. So yes, there would have been more teenage pregnancies during that period than anytime before or since.

Thankfully the Ombudsman has been able to scrutinise the evidence (eventually)and pass a fair judgement. The government has so mishandled this from the beginning. Thank goodness the WASPI women were not judged by mumsnet or The Daily Fail who have opinions and not all the facts.

Significant and serious information regarding a persons retirement and pension be reliant on 'it's been in the papers and on TV' . Seriously! Just spoke to somebody today to mention the proposed TV license increase - they hadn't heard of it.

I hope the Ombudsman assessment is respected. I hope the injustice is rectified. I hope government takes this as a warning that communication affecting people's livelihoods has to be professionally and effectively done.

I hope these women get satisfaction as their victory will benefit other younger women who will undoubtedly be targeted again to bail out failed government financial management. Soft targets.