To think attendance messaging has become insane?!

[JustDiscoveredBueno]

Schools are germ pits. DfE's answer? Make them even more so...cos having more sick kids and staff (if possible) helps attendance and education!!!! Everyone knows that you learn at your best when you're ill or spreading illness.

If someone would have told me this, I’m not sure I would have believed them either. We were very shocked that they suggested it but to say others had let them was very unbelievable to us. We were made to feel like the strange ones for saying no.

I had a conversation with the head of pastoral after the incident and he told me he would have no problem with allowing a welfare officer to look at his sleeping child in their bed if they wanted to. The conversation went downhill fast after that because he was either lying or a terrible parent in my opinion.

We were happy to keep school informed obviously, he was being seen regularly by doctors, he was actually in school some days, we had provided medical evidence multiple times, out child had chatted to the staff about his illness and what was happening with him.

I felt like common sense had gone out of the window by the time they wanted access to his bedroom, I genuinely don’t know what they were trying to do. I don’t know what seeing a sleeping 16 year old would tell them that he, us and the doctors hadn’t told them. If couldn’t have been that they didn’t believe us, it was like they seemed to think if they applied pressure and stress to us, that we could get him in school more, but that wasn’t realistic. It actually took about 2 years for him to get back to full health and impacted college to. His college were great though. He got his A levels and is now at uni doing well, but I still think back to how we were treated and feel very angry.

The current catch-all system is counterproductive.
I think for the attendance letters to be taken seriously and stop harassing people who are not (supposedly) the target, like some PPs have said, the way things are recorded and what kind of absence counts towards the total needs to change.

Authorised absence for medical appointments where an official letter/confirmation has been provided should absolutely not be counted in the 'bad' absence stats. It should be counted in the same way school trips are - recorded, but not affecting the overall attendance percentage. By recording it as having happened, the data should only be used to help understand why a DC may be falling behind, but not as a stick to beat them with. I often wonder how schools get away with the way DCs are discriminated against for medical appointments in the attendance figures, as surely this is highly likely to correlate with disabilities?

The daily phoning in is unacceptable where the absence is planned, documented and the duration broadly known, eg for an operation. This would be considered harassment in the workplace, and is not acceptable in schools.

After that, it really isn't good enough to have letters going out automatically when attendance hits a certain level. There needs to be some human involvement and common sense applied. Perhaps below a certain percentage, the school's attendance officer and LA's officer must have a chat first to decide if there is a good/understandable reason why the DC has been absent so often. Then possibly, like many workplaces would do, a supportive referral to occupational health should be considered. Surely the goal is to improve attendance and the default starting point that nobody wants their DC to miss lots of school (I appreciate some don't care, but it should be 'innocent until proven guilty'). Letters threatening legal action should be at the bottom of the list and an active choice by a human once genuine absence has been decided to be unlikely.

And now that I've mentioned common sense: 9yo DD1 got a late mark last week because her school bus broke down. We live in an outlying village some distance from the school (so few other options to get there) and the bus company insists on sending coaches that are on their last legs - yes, she was indeed late, but I'm not sure it is fair to record it in a way that it is a mark against her name when she had no control over it, school were very aware of what had happened (there were nearly 50 DCs on board) and that it was a genuinely unavoidable delay. There, again, needs to be either the option to not count lateness in such circumstances, or it be marked in a different category of 'lateness' that doesn't contribute to the poor attendance grade.

I also do what a PP described, booking appointments around registration times (when I get the choice - not often). It's ridiculous, as no more or less school time is missed as a result, but it 'plays the game' and keeps her attendance percentage high.
DD1 was really upset earlier this year when she had an occupational therapy appointment with a non-negotiable time. The purpose of the appointment in the main was to find reasonable adjustments to reduce DD's pain and discomfort at school, so she could be a more active learner. She didn't want to go because it would mean losing her 100% attendance status - this shouldn't be playing on her mind!

We were told (early 2000s) to book appointments out of school. But working adults rightly do that too.

Why are schools in England like this?? I’m in rep of Ireland and the schools are not like this in the slightest, they are not bothered whatsoever.

And given the state of the NHS that can be nigh on impossible to do.

DS1’s school is constantly complaining about dentist appointments in school time - the only NHS dentist locally that takes on children atm is one that’s open 8-4 term time. Parents have no choice

I get no choice in my DDs hospital appointments. If you cancel then you’re waiting months for another appointment and still no guarantee it’ll be in the holidays.

My son has awful attendance, he's been having lots of hospital appointments then you get days of unrelated illness and its even more through the floor. We’ve had attendance letters, the head of year told me to ignore them, she said they are a standard procedure the school has to follow and are basically auto generated. She said that for kids like mine where there is documented evidence of appointments and health issues which they have also witnessed the results of, nothing will be done its aimed at those taking time off for every little thing where they could be in. She did however once tell me in winter when it was freezing, when he has underlying health issues (dizziness episodes, fainting and a seizure in school) being investigated and is asthmatic and has to get himself to school, that he should still attend full of a cold he should just dose up on paracetamol before he arrives. I told her that wouldn’t be happening!

Work policies are often just as bad though. In my place of work you get a maximum of 3 absences for illness a year, if you hit that you then aren’t allowed to be ill again for a full 12 months. Having a 4th absence or an illness in a no sickness year leads to disciplinary action. Yet on the other hand you work with vulnerable people and are advised not to come in if you are unwell! I nearly lost my job going through endometriosis diagnosis because without a formal diagnosis for my absences I wasn’t protected. Fortunately I’m now under the equality act which affords me a small safety net.

Schools are like this because they have to follow whatever the DFE commands. The commands during Covid, in particular, were laughable and straight out of some random dystopia. It seems school leaders have just accepted to tick the DFE and Ofsted boxes for their own peace of mind. It is all number and paperwork driven. They follow the “process” to the letter, if you don’t there is no hope in hell of getting an Ofsted outstanding or even Good. If your Ofsted drops you become less desirable aka numbers may drop so less funding, then teachers leave due to problem families/not enough funding. So house of cards comes crashing down. Therefore, just tick the boxes to protect “all” at the expense of the “few” ill ones. Most heads are sympathetic in person. The letters are the “machine” behind it all.

DD’s orthodontist now only offers private appointments before and after school as there was such high demand. Getting an NHS appointment outside of school hours is virtually impossible, yet schools are ignorant enough to believe that this is a reasonable request. DD was told off by head of year for missing a singular lesson during Sixth Form as she had to attend an MRI scan of her brain… madness

In a previous job I used to come across the occasional family who actually didn't send their kids to school. These were families with social services involvement, serious issues around neglect, safeguarding etc. In these cases the kids are genuinely vulnerable, but multiple agencies are aware of them, and school knows about the issues and are trying to support them.

I know lots of families with kids with SEN and this current culture around attendance is just screwed up. We're a world away from those families I used to work with. And we're generally living with high levels of stress, desperately trying to keep kids in school as much as possible, not can't be bothered to send them!

Anyway, I await my school letters/visits, as my autistic kid has the odd day off when he's just overwhelmed and anxious. Forcing him into school would be hugely stressful and counterproductive, but if allowed to stay home and recharge he goes in happily the next day. It doesn't happen that often but it'll bring his attendance below the target.

@MaloneMeadow we went private with the orthodontist in order to make sure we could get after school appointments but for the last three appointments I've had to take her out of school because they are just too busy!

While being kept waiting an hour to be called in I heard the receptionist on the phone telling a parent that they only offer after school appts to GCSE year children.

Being already really annoyed at being kept waiting so long I pointed out to her that my DD is GCSE year and she had still refused me an after school appointment!

It really is awful. We were private so thankfully didn’t have to worry about it but it did feel very wrong that NHS patients were being pushed into that position - not fair or right in the slightest

Honestly, schools dont care. As long as the box is ticked to say little Johnny is at school they couldnt give a fuck. If youve got a school refuser, its a nightmare

Mine wasn’t fine, he was in pain for quite a while (during COVID so no school issue, but definitely not fine!).

Quite a few parents do seem to think school is optional. It is this that is the problem.

Where is the data supporting this?

@skanking wombat some really good points there. Ridiculous that you have to play that game though with appointments. It's not about substance, it's about appearance.

As for PP where they wanted to check his bed - Wtaf?

No it’s actually fine because they are safeguarding. 🙄

I would have told them to come back with a social worker and a section 47 if they wanted to come in.

It’s madness. Let a stranger look at your ill child asleep in bed because ‘safeguarding’. 🤪🤪🤪

The school kept saying how my son had only been seen by us and that someone in a professional capacity needed to see him regularly for safeguarding. That was the justification for keeping sending welfare officers out and demanding he was taken into school for the pastoral team/nurse to see. However, my son was seeing various doctors and medical professionals at least weekly, often more. I sent the school evidence if this each time. I questioned them that surely these doctors and medical professionals count as being seen in a ‘professional capacity’, the school agreed but still continued to send the welfare officer and make demands.

Oh, and then covid came and from the day the school closed in March 2020, we never heard from the school once, other than a general email sent to all year 11 students regarding when to pick up GCSE results. Suddenly it was all forgotten and their ‘safeguarding and welfare concerns’ for our son no longer mattered. Funny that!

As with most things it’s to do with OFSTED. You won’t get a GOOD unless you have good attendance and punctuality.
There is massive pressure to get a GOOD rating so massive amounts of resources are pushed into attendance when they should be spent on more general support staff.

Having been on the other side it’s the same for teachers. We had a teacher break her leg and the HT rang and asked if she would be in the next day. First day of illness, my first in 2 years, the HT told me I needed to go to the doctors, it was a virus all the staff had.

I’m lucky. My child only attends about 50% but I have a good relationship with our attendance office and they’ve told me if I accidentally get a letter to bin it.

There are lots of families where the children don’t go in if they don’t feel like it. The parents just don’t want the conflict. It’s impossible to change that and honestly the whole nature of schooling needs to probably change first. My neighbours granddaughter doesn’t seem to go in much, she just goes shopping with her mum/grandma. It’s the same pattern her older siblings did, and her younger one will do once in secondary.

That's optimistic.

Haha, I get my DS3 to school late frequently, and no reminding will make a difference.

His school is a short walk away, but DS2's taxi to his own specialist ASD school is meant to turn up at X time (which would result in DS3 being in on the dot), but it usually turns up late - but not so late that I could reliably be back home from dropping DS3 to school on time if I took him in first!

I can't be in two places at once, unfortunately!

That's appalling. Though I'm not sure if I could've kept a straight face at being preached at by someone claiming to think it was fine to let someone you've never met before in your sleeping child's room?! Not exactly in a position to give out parenting advice, that one. I mean what next, tips on patient care from Harold Shipman?

Very similar experience here (except the covid ease off!) DD has very rare chronic illness and took many years to get a diagnosis. I’ve had to deal with a massive pile on by her school, the EWO and the LA - I was accused of all sorts!

So I agree with a PP who suggested that anyone who gets a standard computer generated letter should bin it and carry on with your day/life.

Sorry to hear that. It’s extremely stressful to have an ill child and have that level of harassment. I hope your daughter is ok, and you too.

I think they only eased off when covid hit because my son was in his last year and was off to college after. It just shows it was never about welfare, it was solely about attendance. As soon as he didn’t have to be there due to covid lockdown and he was finishing at the school in a few months anyway, they couldn’t give a fuck!

I know schools have to safeguard children, but they need to use common sense. I think of all the time that they wasted harassing us which could have been spent doing good for vulnerable kids and parents and it makes me angry.