Colour Blind casting

[ThinWomansBrain]

I know any statement that starts "I'm not racist but..." is usually exactly that, but I find colour blind casting in period drama really distracting.
I've seen two films and a play in the last week where it's been really off - why go to all of the effort of period costume and make up, and then have really implausible actors?

Wicked little letters - first Asian police woman was 1970s. not 1920s
National Theatre production - 1930s play - white couple with an inexplicably Asian Child
Catherine Booth (co founder of Salvation Army) was not black

It's particularly jarring when they are supposed to be portraying real characters.

In contrast, I saw some contemporary dance/theatre this evening, I don't even race or gender of most of the dancers.

During the Regency period only 0.1% of the UK population was black so fair representation would mean a black person would rarely appear in a film of that period. I also do not think it an issue that the UK entertainment industry has a Eurocentric focus. I would not expect Bollywood to focus other than India. Though there is no reason why Disney needs focus on European fairytales.

The reason why black actors appear in historical uk dramas is not to be colourblind; it is to try and distort the public perception of UK history.

Our history is full of black history - the empire, slavery, we have black poets and play writes - Liverpool has the oldest black community in Britain dating back to at least the 1730's maybe we start with stories reflecting those periods of history. Or modern history ? We seem obsessed with bloody Tudors and it's been flogged to death!

It’s theatre, it’s suspension of disbelief.

Having a black girl play Anna is great for little black girls though. Particularly with shows aimed at children, I think representation is more important than plausibility (and even more so in something featuring talking reindeer etc)

I'd love to watch something about the 17th century black population of Liverpool. Also there's fascinating Chinese history in Liverpool. Great idea!

Albinos don't have black hair. I guess they could dye it.

What annoys me is healthy looking children with plummy accents playing poor working class children. Or why does Peter rabbit have a southern accent - it should be Cumbrian. There's a lot of bias going on. Skin colour is just one of many.. I like productions where diversity is brought in in a considered , high quality way. Not, as someone said up thread, when ethnic minority people play white people. I mean it doesn't bother me in itself but it's usually a marker for something that's not great. I do think representation is really important especially in kids stuff but it always seems to be black people rather than other minorities.

I've seen Keel Watson in the Barber of Seville. I enjoyed the performance very much, but of course opera isn't acting, there's no pretence at realism (what's realistic about every line being sung?). The performance draws you into the plot and your disbelief is suspended. Likewise if I were to see a Shakespearian play, I don't go into it expecting realism, again the performance draws you into it.

TV and film are different for me. Visual effects are a big part of what goes on - I've seen operas with almost empty stages for scenery, that would never be acceptable for a film. If Netflix's The Crown (as much a work of fiction as Downton Abbey) cast a black actress to play Princess Diana, would anyone be convinced?

I've seen period pieces use minority actors in realistic settings to great effect, providing a gritty, realistic depiction of the prejudice they would have faced in the era. Much better than pretending that the past was all happiness and rainbows.

Or why does Peter rabbit have a southern accent - it should be Cumbrian

On what basis should he speak with a Cumbrian accent? Potter was born in London in an upper-middle class home so a ‘plumy southern accent’ would be how she told the tale. She wrote the story in Scotland (it was Mr McGregor’s garden) so if anything Peter should have a Scottish accent!

Mirrors can't talk

People who walk around telling other people that mirrors are talking to them are like to be committed/ put on medication.

Forget the Girl With All the Gifts it should really be the Black Actors With All The Benefits... 🙄

When You're Accustomed to Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression

Jfc read the thread. And the room. You’ve missed the point entirely. No one thinks that. Excellent display of ignorance.

Exactly. So why not?

Because in that (ridiculous) case the race of the characters, and therefore the actors, obviously affects the role.

In my comments throughout - feel free to read the whole thread so that you can see how and why you’re being ignorant (deliberately? I do hope so) - I have said that it’s fine so long as the race of the actor/character is not relevant to the part.

So you’re saying that black actors should not play real life individuals represented in historical dramas from the regency period in the UK (unless they were one of the 0.1% of the population who were black)?

Exactly. It spoiled it for me (I'm mixed race). I did see it as an attempt at being as woke as possible. I never imagined Miss Potts as being mixed race, or Jean as having a disfigurement. It just didn't happen at that period, and I prefer dramas to be as historically accurate as they can.

When Enid Blyton wrote the book, the children and teachers in these schools were almost a hundred percent white and middle or upper class. I never saw a problem with that, it was how it was at that time.

It's great that times have changed, but trying to hitch today's cultural values onto a period drama just doesn't work.

Because it's about under representation - plenty of none white actors could fill those roles - white actors are NOT under represented!

They are in UK historical dramas.

Ben Kingsley ‘browned up’ to play Gandhi (as apparently being half Indian wasn’t enough) so not the best example to give.

Or she had a prodigious cocaine habit and imagined all the tiny people and talking animals.

Not sure her skin colour is the least realistic thing about the movie, tbh.

are 'they' - well suck it up - it doesn't really hurt you does it - 'they' are actors playing a role and existed in history btw I mean 'they' even live in the UK now - how shocking

I think I'm less irked about it in theatre than I am with film or tv series that claim to be aiming for "realism" (as impossible as objective realism really is).
Theatre is excused basically because of the history of theatre - men famously playing women for centuries due to law/tradition meant the audience was both expected and expecting to suspend their disbelief from the word go. Gender, race, cultural references and even contemporary language can either be swapped out due to convenience/merit OR storytelling/boundary-pushing/social commentary and it's pretty much instantly accepted and forgiven.

Film/tv on the other hand catches me up and I can't even say why.
A very quick guess: in film, you are expecting/expected to have less suspension of disbelief from the visible or concrete aspects of the show (the actual actors, say) and it more comes from the storytelling (eg there's "magic" in a fantasy, etc).

"Used to" is a key phrase. We recognise now that it was wrong. Nowadays a black character would be played by a black actor.

You are not even making sense? White actors live in the UK and existed in history? Well yes.

But at the time the Little Mermaid and Snow White were written, the world was ruled by white people whose interaction with global majority races was one of oppression.

For that reason, standards of beauty were white-centric, and people in positions of power were predominantly white.

So it’s no surprise the Little Mermais / Snow White were written as white characters.

If we continue to make these films, we have 2 choices - stay faithful to the original text and continue to teach the next generation of people that the most beautiful creatures are white, or be better at representing beauty as it really is - inherent in every race.

I didn’t hear any complaints about a mixed race Pacific Islander / Native American / white actor playing Triton - just the fact Ariel was black. That’s not people being concerned about the source text, it’s people being racist.

Now the dearth of good parts for global majority actors is a good point - but as someone earlier pointed out, it’s a business. That’s why Hollywood and the various TV stations churn out endless remakes, superhero and games films. Again, the problem is that the source materials are white-centric more often than not, so the choice again becomes reinforcing standards of beauty, wisdom and heroism that reflect the time they were first introduced, or move with the times and become more racially mixed and inclusive.

It’s probably true that your reaction to colourblind casting depends on where you live. A PP mentioned a police show set in Scotland with ‘too many’ black senior coppers jarred because she knew there are hardly any black cops in Scotland. Living in London, I wouldn’t notice this at all - it wouldn’t occur to me.

We’re at a strange time when things are changing for the better, with more politicians and senior positions going to global majority people, and to women, and more of the most ‘beautiful’ women being WOC (Kardashians, Hadids, Beyonce etc).

But it’s going to take a while for that to be reflected in the big ticket culture - video games / comics (especially as these are notoriously white male focussed ‘behind the screen’). Likewise the people with power in the entertainment industries are still mostly white and male.

Things are changing, with more women with big influence emerging (Margot Robbie, Reece Witherspoon both favour female led stories in their productions) and of course the powerhouse that is Shonda Rhimes, but it takes time, so until we have better source material for GM actors, colourblind casting is a great way to have more representation on screen and continue to push the change in beauty and power standards.

It’s the age old question about culture & entertainment reflecting society as it is, versus being a force for positive change.

I prefer the latter.

Plus Ariel is a mermaid. The fact she’s got black skin isn’t the weird thing.