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AIBU?

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My Dream Primary School

120 replies

LudlowStreet · 16/03/2024 20:23

8am : Breakfast club for those who want it. Food available would be porridge, fruit, Shredded Wheat, milk, water, scrambled eggs, brown toast. No crappy sugar cereals.
9am : Registration.
9.15am : The daily mile. Running/walking a loop around the edge of the school. Doesn’t have to be a mile, just 20 minutes of running, whole school takes part, including staff.
9.40am : First lesson
10am : Second lesson
10.20am : Third lesson
10.40am : Play time
11am : Solo reading/book. All children and staff, have a 20 minute break to read whatever they want/look at a book or magazine
11.20 : Forth lesson
11.40 : Fifth lesson which is children helping set up, and older children helping prepare salads/easy foods for lunch.
12.00 : Lunch. Lunch is proper cooked on site food. No UPF at all and little choice salad always available and fruit, main course and pudding served on a proper plate. Children then help clear and clean up after lunch.
13.30 : Sixth lesson
13.50 : Seventh lesson
14.10 : Play time
14:30 : Eight lesson
14.50 : Story time
15.10 : With help, children clean and tidy the school ready for the next day.
15.30 : On site after school club until 6pm for kids who need it. Kids can just watch TV or do activities or just play. Extra curricular could be hosted on site at this time, such as Scouts, drama clubs, sports etc for those who want it.

Lessons could be combined together into 40 minute slots as needed. Music, drama, art etc would not be neglected. Cleaning of the school and helping cook/set up/clean away lunch could be done by different classes on rotation during the week while other children have ordinary lessons, gardening/basic grounds maintenance could also be done in this slot. There would be no tuck/snacks apart from milk in the morning break and fruit in the afternoon break. Apart from milk, only tap water to drink.
What do people think?

OP posts:
IgnoranceNotOk · 16/03/2024 22:15

How long have you been a teacher OP??

LudlowStreet · 16/03/2024 22:19

Dontforgetthesalamander · 16/03/2024 22:15

Why so obsessed with food?

Because I think British children eat shit and it's having really, really damaging affects on them. I've left lots of time in the day for just running around as well.

OP posts:
Needmorelego · 16/03/2024 22:24

Having decent school meals is important .
The children just don't need to be involved with the preparation and washing up.
The school day is actually quite short (6 hours). Washing up after lunch really isn't a priority for the children to be doing.

Myotheripodisayoto · 16/03/2024 22:32

Schools do not need to allocate time to children doing the daily mile or helping prep simple food.

There's no educational expertise required for either - these are things parents should and can do with parents.

There's barely any time allocated to the educational/academic curriculum in your timetable. Most primary schools will be doing an hour of phonics/english every single morning, for example.

Myotheripodisayoto · 16/03/2024 22:33

Parents can change what children are fed. They get one meal a day at school, the other meals can be decent meals at home & if you dislike school food, send a healthy packed lunch. I do this (and yes, i do also have a job).

Dorriethelittlewitch · 16/03/2024 22:33

Apart from the after school club, my kids primary has many of those elements. They do some sort of exercise every day. They all work together to prepare the afternoon snack which is always something healthy. School meals are cooked from scratch in school. They are expected to help tidy up both the classroom and school grounds.

The younger years get small blocks of study interspaced with play/drawing etc and the older ones get free reading time.

They go and get their lunches, scrap the leftovers into the bin, sort the cutlery and stack their plates.

The older children are expected to help the younger ones.

We're in Scotland.

Myotheripodisayoto · 16/03/2024 22:36

A lot of the stuff you want them to get at school OP, should be taught by parenting. Caring for your surroundings, eating healthily, exercising, gardening.

School is not outsourcing parenting, for academic education.

LudlowStreet · 16/03/2024 22:47

Myotheripodisayoto · 16/03/2024 22:36

A lot of the stuff you want them to get at school OP, should be taught by parenting. Caring for your surroundings, eating healthily, exercising, gardening.

School is not outsourcing parenting, for academic education.

I disagree.
They should be getting this stuff everywhere, both at school and at home. Plenty of children don't get this from home though and if they're not getting it from school then they're not getting it anywhere

OP posts:
stormywhethers321 · 16/03/2024 23:20

There's a lot of value in what you're proposing, OP. But a lot of it is impractical and doesn't accommodate the wide range of needs that is a school community.

There's very little transition time here. If I need to get my entire class changed into PE kit and down to.the sports hall, I'm going to lose half the allotted 20 minute period. Not to mention all the toilet breaks that come up when we move location. Then I need to get them out of PE kit, back into school clothes, drink of water for everyone, more inevitable toilet breaks, etc. Sure, I could conceivably sacrifice another lesson (which?) by melding two periods together, but that depends on the need for the hall. If another teacher needs it, I have to be out of there. Likewise, where is the time for pupils to change clothes following a twenty minute run, often in high heat? They'll have to do that in PE kit, right? Otherwise they'll be sitting in sweaty clothes for the rest of the day.

Regarding mandatory staff participation in this run, are all teachers able-bodied in your scenario? Do teachers leave education if they become no longer able-bodied? Or are disabled teachers required to disclose a disability to the school population to explain their non-participation? Yes, in an ideal world, the students would be understanding of that, but we don't live in.an ideal world and people have a right to medical privacy.

There's no time for a teacher to address different levels. I present the work, we have time to ask questions, and then I circulate and identify learners who are struggling with set work. I then form a breakaway group with those students to help them understand and get past whatever their block is. A 20 minute lesson doesn't provide for that need. Again, I could aarifice another lesson, but which? Am I responsible for deciding to eliminate art in favor of numeracy? What does that mean for the children who have a genuine love of art that they won't get to explore in school?

There are a lot of health and safety concerns with making children responsible for something like scrubbing a scrambled egg pan that will then be used to feed possibly hundreds of young people the next day. Same with making pupils reaponsible for laying out plates and utensils that other pupils use. It also creates a scenario where children can get out of an unwanted chore by being bad at it. If children, for example, decide to start licking the cutlery, they'll need to be removed from setting the table duty. This creates more work for the better-behaved children who have to pick up the slack. They'll also need a change of clothes after pan-scrubbing because they're going to get wet.

A lot of people's dream school involve wonderfully-behaved pupils, no neuro-diversity, endless resources, etc. That would be great. But we have to either work with what we have or find funding to make it better. In what we have, my entire primary class (year 3) shares "the eraser". I perforated it with a nail and ran a string through it and then tied it to a large block of wood. It hangs on the wall. I had to do this, as I have to buy stationary with my own money and was told to stop buying so much as it made other people feel pressured to spend equally. I had six contact hours four days last week, as we have no supply teachers available and all my prep time wa allocated to covering sick colleagues. I didn't eat three days last week, because I had to manage behavior issues and/or illness. This is the reality of a lot of schools.

mollyfolk · 17/03/2024 00:08

I think the basic ideas within around movement and food and learning responsibilities and organizing are lovely/

Kids learn best when they have had enough exercise and are fed well.

Our school does lots of this, a daily mile, clean up the classroom, gardening.

I’d love to see proper food being served up on proper plates around a table like they do in France.

Dontforgetthesalamander · 17/03/2024 07:50

A lot of people's dream school involve wonderfully-behaved pupils, no neuro-diversity, endless resources, etc. That would be great.

Why would it be great to have no neurodiversity in schools?

I'm really hoping you didn't mean that how it reads.

iLovee · 17/03/2024 08:43

LudlowStreet · 16/03/2024 21:30

The kids.

My daughter has a severe egg allergy and would die if she touched it.

This is absolutely hilarious, 20 min lessons 😅 the date wouldn't even get written.

Also, ime longer lunchtimes make "major incidents" (big falling outs etc) more likely to happen.

GoodnightAdeline · 17/03/2024 08:44

iLovee · 17/03/2024 08:43

My daughter has a severe egg allergy and would die if she touched it.

This is absolutely hilarious, 20 min lessons 😅 the date wouldn't even get written.

Also, ime longer lunchtimes make "major incidents" (big falling outs etc) more likely to happen.

Then of course she wouldn’t be made to do it, stop being so deliberately obtuse.

Bushmillsbabe · 17/03/2024 08:45

stormywhethers321 · 16/03/2024 23:20

There's a lot of value in what you're proposing, OP. But a lot of it is impractical and doesn't accommodate the wide range of needs that is a school community.

There's very little transition time here. If I need to get my entire class changed into PE kit and down to.the sports hall, I'm going to lose half the allotted 20 minute period. Not to mention all the toilet breaks that come up when we move location. Then I need to get them out of PE kit, back into school clothes, drink of water for everyone, more inevitable toilet breaks, etc. Sure, I could conceivably sacrifice another lesson (which?) by melding two periods together, but that depends on the need for the hall. If another teacher needs it, I have to be out of there. Likewise, where is the time for pupils to change clothes following a twenty minute run, often in high heat? They'll have to do that in PE kit, right? Otherwise they'll be sitting in sweaty clothes for the rest of the day.

Regarding mandatory staff participation in this run, are all teachers able-bodied in your scenario? Do teachers leave education if they become no longer able-bodied? Or are disabled teachers required to disclose a disability to the school population to explain their non-participation? Yes, in an ideal world, the students would be understanding of that, but we don't live in.an ideal world and people have a right to medical privacy.

There's no time for a teacher to address different levels. I present the work, we have time to ask questions, and then I circulate and identify learners who are struggling with set work. I then form a breakaway group with those students to help them understand and get past whatever their block is. A 20 minute lesson doesn't provide for that need. Again, I could aarifice another lesson, but which? Am I responsible for deciding to eliminate art in favor of numeracy? What does that mean for the children who have a genuine love of art that they won't get to explore in school?

There are a lot of health and safety concerns with making children responsible for something like scrubbing a scrambled egg pan that will then be used to feed possibly hundreds of young people the next day. Same with making pupils reaponsible for laying out plates and utensils that other pupils use. It also creates a scenario where children can get out of an unwanted chore by being bad at it. If children, for example, decide to start licking the cutlery, they'll need to be removed from setting the table duty. This creates more work for the better-behaved children who have to pick up the slack. They'll also need a change of clothes after pan-scrubbing because they're going to get wet.

A lot of people's dream school involve wonderfully-behaved pupils, no neuro-diversity, endless resources, etc. That would be great. But we have to either work with what we have or find funding to make it better. In what we have, my entire primary class (year 3) shares "the eraser". I perforated it with a nail and ran a string through it and then tied it to a large block of wood. It hangs on the wall. I had to do this, as I have to buy stationary with my own money and was told to stop buying so much as it made other people feel pressured to spend equally. I had six contact hours four days last week, as we have no supply teachers available and all my prep time wa allocated to covering sick colleagues. I didn't eat three days last week, because I had to manage behavior issues and/or illness. This is the reality of a lot of schools.

Surely children come in in PE kit on those days? It's such a waste of school time them changing and changing back, especially in earlier years where they are slower.
And from year 3 my daughter had to bring a full stationery kit herself - pencils,coloured pencils, glue, eraser, scissors, sharpener, small white board, whiteboard pens and markers. We pay £5 for it at start of term for full kit as PTA buys it in bulk and then sells into parents. Having their own kit saves lots of time moving around the clas to get glue etc and means they get much more done

iLovee · 17/03/2024 08:47

GoodnightAdeline · 17/03/2024 08:44

Then of course she wouldn’t be made to do it, stop being so deliberately obtuse.

Goodness, what an aggressive response to a post not aimed at you.

You have a lovely day!

Dontforgetthesalamander · 17/03/2024 08:50

I think the question about egg allergies was fair enough, because children (and staff) with disabilities aren't being considered or catered for in the op's perfect school so why would allergies be any different?

ZipZapZoom · 17/03/2024 08:52

Dontforgetthesalamander · 17/03/2024 08:50

I think the question about egg allergies was fair enough, because children (and staff) with disabilities aren't being considered or catered for in the op's perfect school so why would allergies be any different?

Agreed. It sounds like the OPs school would only work in some mythical utopia where all the challenges that come in a standard classroom of children such as additional needs, allergies, disabilities and problems at home etc don't exist

HaPPy8 · 17/03/2024 08:53

In no “ideal” vision of mine would kids be at a school 8-6.

i do think teaching cooking and nutrition is important as is exercise but it up to parents to do these things too. If parents walked their children to school the daily mile wouldn’t be needed. Our society doesn’t facilitate parents being able to do this though. It would be much better for children to see it as a part of life rather than a specific “activity” at school.

iLovee · 17/03/2024 08:55

Bushmillsbabe · 17/03/2024 08:45

Surely children come in in PE kit on those days? It's such a waste of school time them changing and changing back, especially in earlier years where they are slower.
And from year 3 my daughter had to bring a full stationery kit herself - pencils,coloured pencils, glue, eraser, scissors, sharpener, small white board, whiteboard pens and markers. We pay £5 for it at start of term for full kit as PTA buys it in bulk and then sells into parents. Having their own kit saves lots of time moving around the clas to get glue etc and means they get much more done

Obviously this is anecdotal, but I have always found my classes behaviour is "worse" on days they come in in their PE Kits. Also, not all parents pay attention to when it's PE - I always had 3/4 spare kits in my classroom but sometimes needed more!

Also, learning to dress independently is a skill in itself! Especially for the littlies 🙂

OutOfTheHouse · 17/03/2024 09:05

iLovee · 17/03/2024 08:55

Obviously this is anecdotal, but I have always found my classes behaviour is "worse" on days they come in in their PE Kits. Also, not all parents pay attention to when it's PE - I always had 3/4 spare kits in my classroom but sometimes needed more!

Also, learning to dress independently is a skill in itself! Especially for the littlies 🙂

I agree that learning to get dressed is a life skill but given that schools are already expected to brush children’s teeth and potty train them can we leave something for the parents to do?

iLovee · 17/03/2024 09:10

OutOfTheHouse · 17/03/2024 09:05

I agree that learning to get dressed is a life skill but given that schools are already expected to brush children’s teeth and potty train them can we leave something for the parents to do?

It's terrible isn't it! We also have to teach how to use a knife and fork, hold a book and hold a pencil. Some people don't deserve to be parents 😔

Bushmillsbabe · 17/03/2024 09:13

iLovee · 17/03/2024 08:55

Obviously this is anecdotal, but I have always found my classes behaviour is "worse" on days they come in in their PE Kits. Also, not all parents pay attention to when it's PE - I always had 3/4 spare kits in my classroom but sometimes needed more!

Also, learning to dress independently is a skill in itself! Especially for the littlies 🙂

My daughters PE kit is smart, logo'd tracksuit/shorts t-shirt and fleece - and very reasonably priced, I think her whole kit was under £30 for the 4 items, many of them look smarter in this than the ties halfway down, shirts not tucked in etc :-)

Personally I find it easier to remember which days she should be in PE kit vs uniform, rather than remembering to bring it in each day, and then leaving it by front door in rush to get out. It's also less for them to carry.

Yes, dressing themselves is an important independence thing, but parents can practice this at home in a relaxed way, rather than the pressure to be ready when their friends are

Scarletttulips · 17/03/2024 09:16

Plenty of children don't get this from home though and if they're not getting it from school then they're not getting it anywhere

You are right a lot of kids don’t get this at home - but when did teaching become parenting?

Why not have a school for parents instead where they could be rated on their parenting skills? The could have PIP plan for poor skills, they could teach them to cook and not hit their kids.

Your vision assumes - well behaved children, clean children, children who ‘just do as they’re asked’ what about all the times they mess around, cause fights, don’t understand the lessons, need support?

My ideal school would be a place of calm and quiet when autistic children could learn and not feel anxious, where dyslexic child could have a different curriculum and not feel useless - where children are graded on manners, kindness and friendship, bravery.

I would also like a separate section for kids who suffer at home so they can have a safe space to learn how to do things like cooking skills they don’t get at home - life skills.

The academics could then get on and learn and the others would be offered different skill sets.

GoodnightAdeline · 17/03/2024 09:34

ZipZapZoom · 17/03/2024 08:52

Agreed. It sounds like the OPs school would only work in some mythical utopia where all the challenges that come in a standard classroom of children such as additional needs, allergies, disabilities and problems at home etc don't exist

Did you expect a full business plan complete with costs, obvious caveats and the staff structure? Or are we just having a casual chat on an internet site where the reasonably intelligent can see these things would be included but we aren’t discussing in enough detail to cover every single scenario?

GoodnightAdeline · 17/03/2024 09:35

Scarletttulips · 17/03/2024 09:16

Plenty of children don't get this from home though and if they're not getting it from school then they're not getting it anywhere

You are right a lot of kids don’t get this at home - but when did teaching become parenting?

Why not have a school for parents instead where they could be rated on their parenting skills? The could have PIP plan for poor skills, they could teach them to cook and not hit their kids.

Your vision assumes - well behaved children, clean children, children who ‘just do as they’re asked’ what about all the times they mess around, cause fights, don’t understand the lessons, need support?

My ideal school would be a place of calm and quiet when autistic children could learn and not feel anxious, where dyslexic child could have a different curriculum and not feel useless - where children are graded on manners, kindness and friendship, bravery.

I would also like a separate section for kids who suffer at home so they can have a safe space to learn how to do things like cooking skills they don’t get at home - life skills.

The academics could then get on and learn and the others would be offered different skill sets.

So a special school? That would be separate to this wouldn’t it?