My Dream Primary School

[LudlowStreet]

8am : Breakfast club for those who want it. Food available would be porridge, fruit, Shredded Wheat, milk, water, scrambled eggs, brown toast. No crappy sugar cereals.
9am : Registration.
9.15am : The daily mile. Running/walking a loop around the edge of the school. Doesn’t have to be a mile, just 20 minutes of running, whole school takes part, including staff.
9.40am : First lesson
10am : Second lesson
10.20am : Third lesson
10.40am : Play time
11am : Solo reading/book. All children and staff, have a 20 minute break to read whatever they want/look at a book or magazine
11.20 : Forth lesson
11.40 : Fifth lesson which is children helping set up, and older children helping prepare salads/easy foods for lunch.
12.00 : Lunch. Lunch is proper cooked on site food. No UPF at all and little choice salad always available and fruit, main course and pudding served on a proper plate. Children then help clear and clean up after lunch.
13.30 : Sixth lesson
13.50 : Seventh lesson
14.10 : Play time
14:30 : Eight lesson
14.50 : Story time
15.10 : With help, children clean and tidy the school ready for the next day.
15.30 : On site after school club until 6pm for kids who need it. Kids can just watch TV or do activities or just play. Extra curricular could be hosted on site at this time, such as Scouts, drama clubs, sports etc for those who want it.

Lessons could be combined together into 40 minute slots as needed. Music, drama, art etc would not be neglected. Cleaning of the school and helping cook/set up/clean away lunch could be done by different classes on rotation during the week while other children have ordinary lessons, gardening/basic grounds maintenance could also be done in this slot. There would be no tuck/snacks apart from milk in the morning break and fruit in the afternoon break. Apart from milk, only tap water to drink.
What do people think?

and absolutely, most of the jobs you’ve mentioned require quite a high degree of academic education!

I agree that all adults need a good level of literacy. And to be able to ‘add up’ and work out things like percentages. But the obsession with academics from age 4 is ridiculous. 5 year olds don’t need to know what split digraph is. 8 year olds don’t need to know what a fronted adverbial is. 10 year olds don’t need to know modal verbs and the subjunctive tense. They don’t need to know algebra and how to calculate the area of a parallelogram. Primary school children don’t need to be tested every few weeks.
I’m in my 40s and didn’t know any of the above until I was much much older. I’m managed to get some A levels, an undergrad and a post grad degree just fine. As did most of my peers.

This doesn't sound very far from my daughters infants school

• they do the daily mile, or yoga inside if raining
• they have quiet reading time
• they help tidy up and prepare fruit for snack time
• they have a salad and fruit bar at lunch
• older children in year 2 take supportive roles for younger in reception such as reading practice

Not sure it would work as well in juniors, when they have lots more to cram into the day.

There needs to be a bit more flexibility I'm your day, with food etc. For example my gluten egg and dairy intolerant child may struggle. Alternatives for those with physical disabilities who might not be able to complete the daily mile or help with tidying, food prep etc

A lot of what you suggested does already happen - in some form.
For example gardening. A lot of schools do have either a plot or raised beds which the children grow things - a lot of parents don't realise this because they don't see an official "timetable" of what is done every day and they don't see the gardening plot because they just drop and leave at the gate or whatever.
My daughter's old primary they have a growing section on the roof. Most parents never see it because they don't go on the roof.
So many of these "wouldn't it be great if schools did...." threads actually suggest things that schools already do.

Op I see your thread has descended into deliberate misinterpretation and ridicule. Sadly there are many posters on here who are very triggered by schools being anything other than an inflatable funhouse where the kids drink Tango and eat ham sandwiches, and they can whinge about ‘not enough teacher support’ when the hyped up kid whacks another one. It’s because they’ve brought their kids up to eat junk and feel like the centre of the universe and now need to bring others down to make themselves feel better.

The crux of what you’re getting at - healthier food, more time outdoors, better wraparound care - is spot on. The timetable is a bit much IMO but I can see what you’re getting at.

You can’t teach 6 year olds driving, construction work or emergency medicine. In any event you have to be able to read and write to learn all of those things.

And you'll notice I left 1.5 hours for lunch. This would include cleaning up time as well. I wouldn't expect children to sit at the table all that time, they could go play when they've finished, although I would make them sit at the table for at least 20 minutes (younger children) and 30 minutes (older children).

In Wales we have the foundation Phase until year 2 where children learn in small focus groups and have continuous provision where they learn through play inside and outside the classroom. Focus groups are often only 20 mins long. Many welsh schools have a free breakfast club (although not from as early as 8am, my kids school is from 8.30). They also have free milk until year 2 and they all have free school dinners until year 6. A lot of schools have after school clubs. There are no SATs (although there are literacy and numeracy tests but they’re online and adapt to the child’s ability- they’re a work in progress I would say.) They all do daily mile (wel the ones I know of do)

However, the funding for education in Wales is dire and has reached an all time low. So sadly I don’t think a lot of this will be able to continue. TAs are being cut which affects foundation phase provision. Free meals are new so they will stay and hopefully breakfast club too.

For me, I think you need to include access to resources and proper funding for both staffing and building maintenance. I’d want this dream school to be energy efficient, have natural light and fresh air, be cool in summer and comfortable in winter, green space to play and explore and garden, plus spacious playgrounds with trees for shade, and interesting equipment to encourage creativity and movement at break times. Not just nice classrooms, but smaller rooms for small group work, clean toilets in good working order, cloakrooms with sufficient space not just a crowded row of pegs in a corridor. Changing spaces for PE as they get older.

I work in an education-adjacent role and all the much needed recent staff pay increases have been unfunded by the government, meaning more of the schools budget is going on wages and they’ve got less (in real terms) for equipment, building maintenance and class resources than they’ve had before, meanwhile the costs of everything are going up. Utility bills for the average primary school in my area are £2k+ a month.

In my local academy trust the amount they get from the government to maintain each building is less than £50k per year. Sounds like a lot of money but schools are big buildings and lots are very old, things like replacing the lighting for LED can cost £20k. A new roof will take way more than £50k, especially if the building has asbestos anywhere and specialist contractors are needed. Then there’s things like resurfacing playgrounds which is often a five figure sum.

The kids.

Registration could be earlier. 8.40 and then do daily mile until 9am. I think the problem with this, and with many primary schools is that what works for 4 year olds isn't the same as what 11 year olds need so one fixed timetable like this won't work.

20 mins break is pretty short and 1.5 hours is too long if you are finding playtime hard. I like the principle but I think I'd remove the cleaning up and would replace with high quality food, eaten alongside adults and older children for 30 mins and then 30 mins of break. 20 mins of reading time is too long for most reception kids too and I'm not sure putting it in the middle of the day works. Ideally I'd say that 20 mins happens outside the school day but school has set that expectation and normalized that happening.

I'd like to see

• high quality food, eaten in a nice environment that caters for all requirements
• high quality playtime activities, more sport (and done in a better way) outside times. Kids need way more activity than they currently get.
• flexible curriculums. No SATS/ times table tests etc.
• Loosing a lot of the grammar curriculum and a higher focus on reading for pleasure rather than passing tests.

-Exciting school visits that expand childrens life experience.

• School uniforms designed for playing in. Not shirts/ ties/ summer dresses.
• Scrap attendance awards
• Better facilities, particularly for the jrs. Science labs, DT rooms, music rooms, art studios, full sports facilities. Better play facilities for little ones.
• TA in every class.
• Really high quality teachers and leaders.

Sadly this would take so much adult support ( that schools just can't find).

School lunch is often the most poorly behaved time if the day as it is less structured.

Children without manners, children who can't use cutlery. Children who are not able to sit at a table for any length of time, hold a conversation etc etc.

Schools where lunchtime outdoor play has had to be shortened or split/staggered because children are unable to play safely and with some imagination and focus.

Working with schools and seeing the struggle to find lunchtime staff and TA’s I can see a time when schools have no choice but to shorten lunch to a quick snack in your own classroom. (15 minutes).

I like your thoughts though.

With regard lunchtime, would playing slow quiet background music help calm lunchtime?

And adults. As an AuDHD adult with ARFID I go through stages where I can only drink fizzy water or water with cordial. Not that I'd work in a school again as the majority who work in schools get treated awfully.

OP: you can tell you've tell ever been involved in the school day I'm afraid! I disagree with academics being pushed on primary age (and it was a big factor in our decision to home educate as a first choice), but even I see the insanity of 20 minute lessons. Half the kids won't even be ready to take in information before that time is up!

The food, cooking it, serving it, eating it and cleaning up afterwards is really important to me and all important learning. As is cleaning the school and maintaining the grounds, loads of important skills and values learnt there.

Sometimes, maybe as a novelty at first, but not really. Children just get louder over it.
Lunch involves large numbers of children. It isn't unusual to have 100 at a time in the hall.

We also tried ‘speaking and listening tubs’ - each tub on the table, contained cards with questions and suggestions for conversation as pupils have so little experiences and language to draw on. A way of trying to broaden their talk.

Totally missing the point if what I’m saying.

I don't think the majority of your ideas sound too far fetched.
My school don't have breakfast club or afterschool as the creche attached drop and collect children.
Classes begin at 8:50. I have spilt our daily kilometer into two (it's 12 laps of the playground ) so we do one at 10 and one at 1: when they are starting to flag.
We do mindfulness between small and big break at 11:50.
At the end of the day the children wipe their tables, stack their chairs tidy the floor and put recycling out to the big recycling bins.

Love the idea of lunches but we do packed lunches.

Oh but OP that’s slave labour and you’ll traumatise them and… lol

You've definitely never seen children scraping their own plate onto the floor into a bucket!

So messy and so much to clear up afterwards.

Maybe very long term your ideas will work, but it would take whole communities. Children would have to develop these skills at home too. Schools just don't have the staff to support hundreds of children clearing plates ( though we try), cooking food and cleaning.

@LudlowStreet oh god no music. Calming or whatever. It's just another layer of noise. You don't need it. Schools are a noisy environment. You don't need to add to it.

Doesn't sound too far off my old European Montessori primary school. We had a rota of who had to help clean the tables after lunch, we had to clear and clean the tables at the end of the school days, put our chairs on the desks to enable the cleaners to do their job properly etc. Our school days were a good hour shorter than they are in the UK but we still somehow learned a much more varied selection of things than my kids are learning. We had weekly art lessons, music lessons, needle work, wood work... We didn't have homework per se, just work we had to finish each week but we could do it at school or at home. I have the fondest memories of my old school :) It was such a stress-free environment but I learned so, so much! Including things like table manners. Things I've noticed my kids are utterly clueless about 🙃

@LudlowStreet you seem to be focusing a lot on food. Children need to eat - but I personally think school isn't the place to be focusing so heavy on it and including doing washing up after lunch!
Cooking and learning about nutrition is already on the curriculum. As I said upthread many schools do already have veg patches where they grow things.

My dream school would be properly funded to begin with. Proper facilities, enough staff , specialised staff (or training available for free ) , to deal with various SEND and SEMH issues, a less packed curriculum (while I like SPAG , I don't believe the kids actually need to know all the terms or that they have to prove they can use brackets for parenthesis) , no SATS. To be able to teach and help kids in the way they need it, when they need it. To be able to have some fun with them, have conversations and discussions and debates. To really see how they think and why they think the way they do . To unpick any misconceptions and broaden their horizons . To just let them be sometimes. To be able to just answer a question, even if only tangential to the topic and explore that new knowledge together.

Why so obsessed with food?