At what age do children see their parents for who they really are?

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I have a 5yo who idolises his father. His father was abusive and I can't do handovers so they're all in a contact centre. I have a permanent non molestation order. My son idolises him, and knows nothing of the abuse. Selfishly it hurts that he adores him so much, because he is not a nice man, but I go along with it for now because it works for everyone. My worry is that his now very fun dad isn't always going to be that way, and our son might start realising that there's a reason mummy can't be in the same room as daddy, and I'll have to explain. How long does the Disney dad phase actually work for? How long does the constant cinema trips/soft play/theme parks etc work for if there's very little actual parenting?

Oh Love, that sounds tough. Sadly all you can do is hope that DS does see the light one day and realises what his Dad is. I'd be worried that as he gets older he will be influenced by his "hero" Dads opinions, so I would be absolutely influencing him towards respect for women from the very start. I'd also be making sure he has other positive male role models in his life, so he can model their behaviour.

Well mine are in their 20’s and still idolise their shitty father and live with him. He hates me so keeps the narrative going that I was and am abusive- this happens on an almost daily basis. I know this because some of them tell me.

My DD started seeing it when he would let her down...sadly she had to experience that to see. As me, youll be there to pick up the pieces which DC will remember. Let it play out OP. Your ex wont keep up the charade believe me.

Thankfully he has wonderful role models. My father takes him cycling every Tuesday after school. My brother has him overnight once a week for a sleepover which is his favourite night of the week. My best male friend pops over once or twice a week and will spend time with him doing the watching of cartoons and talking kid stuff whilst I potter and deliver cups of tea. I am very lucky in that sense.

I think they always see them in terms of their own relationship, so you son will probably never see him as you do. Even when he is older, he will know that each parent has a different narrative for why they don't see each other, but he won't necessarily accept either.

Also as long as his father continues to see him and spend time with him, he won't care who does the actual parenting.

11, I've seen a subtle change

I only took off the rose-tinted spectacles when I first became pregnant in my late 20s and thought, holy fuck, how could I not see her for who she really is before this?! My dad I knew all my life was an abusive frightening man, but somehow I managed to blank out all the abuse I got from my mum over the years. Now I fully see her for the neglegent shit parent she was and is.

Mine were about 10 when they started realising that they weren't the top priority for their dad and that his new family came first. Contact arrangements revolve around their commitments and logistics, never my kids' activities or preferences. He's not an abusive arsehole but over the last couple of years they've started to pull away and occasionally baulk at arrangements. I think they'll eventually settle for a distant but intact relationship on their own terms.

both of mine are grown up late teen and early 20s and are both NC with their dad. This is because of the shitty way he treat them, not because of the way he treat me. Eldest had enough by the time she was about 13, younger DD took longer- she was 19 when she finally cut contact.

Same. X

I was about 4 but I was witness to my dad's nastiness every day. It would have been impossible not to see.

I guess it depends how much dcs see. I think teens start to understand the subtleties.

5 and 6 - which was around a year after he left
Things like not turning up to school events, nativity, carol concert, parents evenings they noticed first - he just checked out and prioritised his new family

My friends ex/father of her children is a-hole. The older child at 8 is starting to realise that he is not as golden as he appears (5 year old still adores) and this is causing its own issues as 8 year old feels her mum lied to her 'mum why didn't you tell me what he was really like' and is now angry at both parents and going through a tough time herself, school refusing etc. 8 year old is round ours quite a lot as friends with my oldest, and has asked me to come live with us more than once as she has openly said she sees DH and us as 'normal' and her seperated parents as both 'crazy liars' - her mum is lovely (but has struggled) but I agree with this about her Dad.
It's a tough one, they have to come to the truth about their Dad on their own to really believe it, but be prepared for some push back on your side too

Mid teens. Possibly earlier, guess it depends how much time they spend together and how he treats his child.

17-18 here.

I don't see why you don't tell her the truth.
There's a midway between gaslighting the child that their father is fab and constantly slagging him off.
But when you pick her up, you could tell her why it has to be at the contact centre
I'm not sure mothers pretending a shit dad is great is any better than constantly criticising the father.
You can tell the truth in a soft easy way.

SDS cut contact with birth mum when he was 15. His younger brothers quickly followed suit at 13.

I think they knew from about 9/10 though that she wasn’t a good person, but FOG starts early…

It will depend on his dad’s behaviour toward him, not you, which is also fair enough. Some men that are abusive toward women can manage being okay parents part time because they can hold it together for those times in a way they wouldn’t be able to if they had to parent full time. So it will depend on whether he can do that and remain consistent for your DC and in which case he may never see his true colours. If not, and he lets him down then it will take time but he will get there eventually.

I’d say it took a couple of years of being letdown by his mum for DSS to see his mum’s behaviour for what it was, he still has hope she will change of course, but he got there on his own. I would start considering how you will be honest without being nasty about his dad, when the questions do come, because it’s not an easy thing to navigate.

@Bushmillsbabe put it nicer than I would.

Remember once your child starts noticing their father's faults they will notice yours.

It takes longer and it depends who their peer group is, before they notice any of your redeeming qualities.

Interestingly with all the kids I know it is ignoring them or seeing them but not interacting with them at contact which makes them see that parent as an a-hole.

More devastating for a kid - and you don't want to see this - is when there is an emergency where lots of other adults go out of their way to help but their parent is completely AWOL for sometime.

Not the exact same scenario but DSS idolised his abusive ( domestic abuse) prick of a stepfather at that age.
As he got a bit older the hold his stepdad had on him reduced and by the time his mum left him he was 10 and for the most part was happy to see the back of him. However he did admit that he missed him at times so the split loyalties in a young child is very complex.
I think you are doing all the right things

I would say only when they are let down or they become inconsistent with how often they visit. Or sucks because if they are a charmer then the children might not see through the act - we are all weirdly attached to our parents in some way.

For my DD she saw it at the age of 10 but that’s because he went from regular contact to none and now inconsistency.

A friend of mine discovered her dad was a waste of space at around 16 years of age when she lived with him and he just wasn’t emotionally or physically available.

Some go right into adulthood.

It’s a tough one but as long as your children know you and have your back too. It’s horrible when the other parent is constantly bad mouthing the other.

I agree with @Runningwildish and @Bushmillsbabe that pretending a shit person is great is gaslighting. I told my dc, in a very gentle, age-appropriate way, that their dad loved them because they are extremely loveable kids and who could not love them, but was unable to act on it because he wasn't well or stable enough. This had the twofold effect of boosting their self-esteem while allowing them to understand why he was being shit. I believe I've done the right thing there. Both still have contact, older one has a good relationship with her dad while understanding that he will never be a proper parent to her, younger one can't be arsed with his dad but sees him when necessary. Their choices.

Yes, this. We don’t ever necessarily accept one parent’s narrative of the other.

I can only speak from my own experience here: similar situation to you in that my ex was abusive (mainly just emotionally but once or twice physically) Moved out when DD was four, several years of very threatening and unpleasant behaviour while the divorce was going through. A non molestation order was in place for a year. Most of his poor behaviour was driven by an alcohol abuse problem underpinned by mental health issues.

My DD adored him and pined for him during the really bad periods. So for about two or three years after he moved out.

To his credit he has really got his act together since then, had had counselling, stopped drinking etc and he and I have a fairly cordial relationship now and she now could not give a shit about him. I have never slagged him off and never talked about the abuse.

Ironically just as he is now some semblance of a good co parent she no longer needs him. He’s heartbroken and I have some sympathy but ultimately he’s made his bed.

I think kids come to realise over time what is important in parenting terms, He always spent stupid money on her etc but he was never the person who sat up all night with her during an asthma attack or who listened to her talking on and on as nauseam about some tv show. Or went to her parents evenings or helped her with homework or bought replacements for the school jumpers she lost.

Kids aren’t stupid and they instinctively know what parenting is.