At what age do children see their parents for who they really are?

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I have a 5yo who idolises his father. His father was abusive and I can't do handovers so they're all in a contact centre. I have a permanent non molestation order. My son idolises him, and knows nothing of the abuse. Selfishly it hurts that he adores him so much, because he is not a nice man, but I go along with it for now because it works for everyone. My worry is that his now very fun dad isn't always going to be that way, and our son might start realising that there's a reason mummy can't be in the same room as daddy, and I'll have to explain. How long does the Disney dad phase actually work for? How long does the constant cinema trips/soft play/theme parks etc work for if there's very little actual parenting?

He'll see the light eventually.

As it happens, I'm in a local Costas for an hour every Wednesday, between about 4 and 5pm. And once a month I see a dad "on contact" with his kids. A boy of about 10 and a girl of about 4. The kids are dropped off by a woman, and the dad is always accompanied by some sort of witness, who just sits at the next table and watches.
I've never seen performance parenting like it. The dad hollers every single interaction with the kids at full volume, looking around for his audience the entire time.
The little girl is all over him like a rash, but the boy is NOT into it. Monosyllabic answers to questions, and eyes down. He's clearly long since seen through his dad's BS. Your son will as well OP. The whole Disney Dad thing gets old very quickly.

Well into adulthood I’m afraid

22 years for me. A very long wait but the wolf in sheep's clothing finally slipped and the temper came out.
I tried my level best to allow my kids to love their dad without knowing the truth about his emotionally abusive and sordid behaviour. I've been as dignified as my brain and emotions could allow.
I'm so very glad they have a decent relationship, but can finally see why I don't like can't stand him.

I really think it can depend on what kind of parent they are to the child and also on the child themselves. Majority of abusers in my opinion lack the ability to put anyone else before themselves and eventually the kids will recognise this. Some children will try even harder to get their parents attention and others will just not be bothered with them. Many abusers will also go on to abuse the children directly but when adults struggle to recognise when they are being abused it’s a big ask for children to recognise it.

My teen could take or leave his father. He hates seeing him but has being holding out hope that his father will change. In our circumstances I think the final nail in the coffin happened when I met someone else and had two more children. My husband has been a real example of how to be a father. So much so my eldest once said his stepdad is like the father he never had. I do not slag off my ex but I certainly never sing his praises either.

I always remember a friend, aged about 14 saying off the cuff in relation to something else "well obviously, my dad's a waster" as though it was common knowledge. I didn't particularly know him (he was married to mum and all in same household) and I remember feeling so sad for her that not only did I later realise it was true, but that she was so brutally aware of it.

It's so sad when adults let kids down. I think they usually know deep down, but sometimes admitting it outwardly is too difficult for them. Another friend, whose dad was violent and rarely bothered making contact with his kids after the divorce, was forever bragging about how rich and successful his dad was. Such a shame for his children that he didn't see fit to share his wealth or time with them when they so desperately needed it.

My Dd started saying “Well, you know what Dad’s like.. “ when describing situations at about age 7.

I didn't quite say it was gaslighting - gaslighting is an intentional attempt to deceive someone for your own benefit.
A mum who doesn't tell a child how awful their non resident parent is, is usually doing it in an attempt to either avoid further conflict with the NRP who could be potentially violent, protect their child from an awful truth, or scared their child won't believe them.

My friend had gently tried to tell her daughter a year or 2 ago that her dad had some challenges which meant he couldn't be the dad she deserved right now, but she still idolised him at that point and wasn't ready to see it, but the 8 year old doesn't recognise this - of course its a huge amount to deal with at any age, and is just really angry

For me, my son realised when he was 12 that his Dad is an idiot and a bad person. I didn't tell him anything bad about his dad he just figured it out for himself at that age. He is now 13 and hasn't seen his dad for a year. He used to idolise him when he was young too.

On some level, he may well be aware. I knew that my father had a ‘nasty side’ from about 6 or 7, however he only showed it to other people- was completely oblivious of how he treated my Mum when I wasn’t around. At around 14-15 I began to see his coercive, manipulative and bullying behaviour for what it was, but felt a lot of pressure not to say anything.
As I got older I did challenge it when he tried to do it to me and he would make attempt to apologise. However I felt a lot of pressure to tolerate it as he was my father- my brother went no contact at 20 as he wanted nothing to do with him. I then felt more pressure, as I felt he should have a relationship with at least one child.
I continued to see him behave poorly to me and those around me and just tolerated until last June- I was 39. Funnily he decided I was the problem when I chalked him and to make matters worse, his siblings and parents who we also victims of his behaviour, didn’t want to rock the boat. They have now gone no contact with me and haven’t spoken to or seen my brother in over 25 years.
Through all of this my poor mother kept her lips sealed- they separated when I was 15. When I asked her why she didn’t say anything, she said she wanted us to see it for ourselves- her strength was immense. I promise your children will start seeing it for themselves- his mask will fall eventually and they’ll need you when it does. The strength and control my mother showed by supporting but saying nothing was invaluable and without her I couldn’t have done it.

My DD is starting to see what her dad is really like, first happened when she was about 10. I was told children start voting with their feet at 11. She’s 11 now, still going to her dad’s but she’s really noticing the difference in parenting styles and knows who’s got her back.

My now DH who is divorced has 2 kids. Now almost 16 & 19.

He's a great dad and fully involved in their lives. It has been extremely difficult though as his EW said if he left he wouldn’t see the kids again and she has done everything she can to make this happen.

Sadly their mum has never got over the divorce and has used the children as weapons. Stopped contact and done everything she can to exit him out of their lives.

She openly badmouths their dad, for example - they aren’t allowed any pictures of him in her sight, aren’t allowed to call him dad (he’s only to referred to as ‘him’). Aren’t allowed to bring any cards, presents home he gives them as it upsets her. When they were younger she would withhold contact when she felt like it. Would allow dad to speak to the kids in their birthdays etc.

CAFCASS & social services suspected parental alienation but it was too late to do anything (as the oldest child as then 18 & youngest nearly 16).

The older girl thinks the sun shines out of mums backside and mum can do no wrong. Dad is always wrong and everything is his fault.

The younger boy realised at around 14 what mum was doing and told me recently he can’t wait to leave home. He has said he knows what she has done (dad has never ever said anything bad about their mum or what she has done).

I think when the older girl leaves home and gets out of mums clutches she will realise what mum has done.

I would say only when they start letting the child down not showing up for contact etc, if they are consistent and fun parent I don't think children necessarily see the light I would say it more comes if they start letting them down not showing up or cancelling contact

Sometimes they never do because it's less painful to focus on the good parts and gloss over the bad. Honestly, as frustrating as it is, you're powerless here as it's their relationship. Best just to focus on your own with them and how they see you.

They probably won't fully comprehend the reason why you personally can't be in contact with him till quite a bit older.
The'd have to firstly realise that whilst many parents are separated/ divorced the majority of these parents can communicate etc. They would then have to either ask or work out for themselves the possible reasons for this.

However children know from being very young who to turn when they are in need, because even in happy households where both parents are present, things are divided in different ways.

In your situation they might think dad is wonderful, but they will still know that dad is only one colour, whereas you are the whole rainbow.

Op that's so sad and hard for you.

Children seem to want to see the best in their parents and feel like they had great parents who loved them.
Whilst he maybe an utterly awful man does he genuinely love his son?

There are adults on here who can’t (won’t) accept that their parents/partner behave appallingly.

My kids knew by secondary school age what their dad was like and see him on their terms (very infrequently and with minimal expectations)

It's not our job to get dc to see their DF for who he really is. It's our job to protect them and be there for them when they eventually do.

Be grateful that his dad is behaving well enough that your young dc does idolise him.

My dd saw so little if her father that she thought Robbie Williams was her dad when very young (they look vaguely alike). She also asked a neighbour with dark hair if he was her dad when we were in the shop. She hadn't seen her dad for 6 months at that point. ☹️

At least your son is with you the majority, so hopefully your influence and that of your family will really help to mould who he is ❤️