Advice please - tricky situation with restaurant

[hairbearbunches]

Any advice on this welcome. I'm not sure what to do next other than chalk it up to a poor experience and move on, but I'm pretty cross about it. Went to a pretty upmarket restaurant last week not far from where we live. Second time I've been. DH has been a few times more with work colleagues. The waitress dropped some cutlery behind my chair as she was clearing away the plates of the table next to us - group of 5 women. Loud noise, nothing more than that or so I thought at the time. As we were leaving, DH went to loo and asked me to take the dog who had been sitting underneath his side of the table the entire meal. I took her lead and she started paying serious interest in my coat which was hanging off the back of the chair. When I looked down, it was covered in grease marks, there was pretty much a perfect imprint of a greasy knife up the left hand side of the sleeve as well as other biggish greasy marks. It was quite obvious what had happened so I went and told the waitress who had dropped the cutlery. She looked a bit rabbit in headlights and I got the distinct impression she knew it was already there and had been hoping we weren't going to notice. The coat is a waxed coat from Toast. I got it in the sale but it still cost £175. It can't be dry cleaned, hand wash cold only. I've tried to get the grease out and made a decent stab of it, but it's not the same coat. There are still stains on it.
Anyway, long story short, I finally got an email back from them tonight saying they'd spoken to the waitress and the knife (singular) she dropped was nowhere my coat and therefore they believe that my coat was already greased up before I got there and the dog licking it has made it worse (the dog licked it once).
What would you do? Put it down to bad luck and accidents happen or pursue it further. I'm pretty hacked off with their dismissive attitude. I walked in to their restaurant with a pristine coat and walked out with it in a right mess and they've made me feel like I'm trying to pull a scam on them.

Once a waitress spilled soy sauce on my dress. There was a huge apology and an offer to pay for dry cleaning. We then got free cocktails after our meal.

The restaurant (not the waitress) should pay for your coat to be fixed.

If they really won’t do anything then the only option is to leave bad reviews.

I get it, I truly do. But unless the OP refused to leave the restaurant until a manager arrived, there's little she can do now except leaving an awful review.

Really expensive restaurants put coats away and ask if you want to put your bag in storage as well. They rarely accept responsibility for accidents damaging a client's property because their insurance premiums will be so high, their business would fold. At the most, they'll offer a free meal while apologising profusely. But don't expect a refund on a coat.

@Autienotnaughtie Of course I do. But you have to have some cajones to leave a negative review if it is not actually factual

I was out for dinner with my friend at an upmarket restaurant (Roka) when a similar thing happened. A waiter spilt greasy food onto his expensive suit whilst clearing. The difference was that it was seen and apologies given at the moment it happened as it was on the sleeve. Roka instantly agreed to pay for dry cleaning. As they should.

If I were you I'd mention it in a tripadvisor review - but they are unlikely to do anything about it. Just get defensive. Probably better to check clothes when it happens in future (I say that as someone who probably wouldnt think to do that).

I don't think you're being unreasonable to be pissed off though.

The criminal standard of proof is “beyond reasonable doubt” and is higher than the standard of proof in a civil case which is, as I explained above “on the balance of probabilities”.

Given your complete misunderstanding of how evidence works in a civil court, I don’t think anyone should be giving any credence to your statement that “it wouldn’t stand up in court”.

It really isn’t. This is what Small Claims court is for.

They should work on the assumption that, if they don't try to make amends, the customer will leave bad reviews everywhere, never come back, and tell all her family and friends never to come back. In other words they should assume that, if they don't make an effort, it will impact their business much more than paying out a few quid for cleaning/loss.

Some of these replies are so weird.

the restaurant accepts dogs. Op took dog. No issue.

upmarket restaurant = not McD, but also not the ritz. Reasonable description. No issue.

the coat is greased up like a bastard. Given it’s really light, it’s basically ruined. I’d try fairy liquid but let it sit to work, and then biological washing liquid directly on stain and rinse/wipe rather than washing machine.

the waitress dropped mucky cutlery down OP’s coat. Why are people making out that a waitress is some sort of protected species? She made a mistake, denied it verbally (but behaviour indicates otherwise) and fucked the op over. Restaurant ought to have procedures for salads to customers stuff like this - insurance etc

people are so wriggly, tricky and deceitful these days. I mostly stay home to avoid people because of it.

Honestly I think you're being far too precious. It was an accident. Not dropped on purpose. Coat can be cleaned and rewaxed - not a massive effort to DIY but you can always outsource, sooner or later you'd have to anyway.
I also think it's bad manners to take a dog to an upmarket restaurant.

@WatchandWaitorNot Yes, I understand that, nevertheless, many including the OP, have jumped to the conclusion that a clattering of cutlery somewhere behind the OP's chair could extrapolate to that stain being 'knife-shaped' and caused by the clattering cutlery
It is not an obvious, nor a balance of probabilities issue. 2 + 2 = 4 is an assumption here, not a fact

Jesus, give it up, that's an actual lawyer you're trying to argue with about balance of probabilities

Yes, yes, I will because you have told me to stop.
Thank you so much.
How would I have coped without your sage advice?

Pleasure!

The number of armchair forensics experts and people pontificating as if they were holding forth in court is bizarre.

So OP just accepts her coat which was new and undamaged when she arrived at the restaurant was ruined?

I certainly wouldn’t let this lie. Very different if it’s a coat that’s been worn a few times and has wear and tear but if it was stained not by me I’d expect cleaning costs to be paid in that case too. The waitress should be more careful and re the other diners, if they’re messing around with cutlery which might impact other diners then a waitress should have had a word with them at the time.

Restaurant is being sloppy and not showing good customer care here.

I guess they could do a re-enactment using a prop as the jacket and some similarly dirty cutlery and see how the resultant staining looks in comparison?

I disagree.

As a preliminary point, you should be aware that the OP’s own account, and that of her husband, is absolutely admissible as witness evidence, even though one might say that she has an interest in exaggerating or even lying in order to win her claim. It is up to the court to assess their credibility and decide what weight to give to that evidence.

Here is the evidence:

1. When OP arrived at the restaurant, she does not believe that she had a stain on her coat. She is the kind of person who would notice such a thing. Her husband would probably have noticed the stain if it had been there earlier.
2. OP isn’t in the habit of wearing or storing her coat in her own kitchen (see point 4 for by this is relevant).
3. During the meal, a waitress clearing the table right behind OP dropped a load of dirty cutlery cleared from a large table. This made a big noise and the items went all over the place. Several other diners witnessed this.
4. The OP’s dog took a keen interest in the stain. This suggests that it was food-based.
5. When items fall, they often bounce or skid quite far. We have all dropped something and been surprised to find it in a different place to where we thought it had fallen. It happens quickly and we can’t be sure of the trajectory of each item.
6. There is no witness who can say that they examined OP’s coat before the incident and can give independent evidence as to whether or not a stain was present.

You will note that there is no mention of the stain being “knife-shaped” as I think this is a red herring.

The fact that the dog licking the food may have made the stain worse is irrelevant as the food would not have been there in the first place but for the dropping of the cutlery. the dog was there with the consent of the defendant restaurant so this was not a separate act by the OP which interrupts the chain of causation.

How else does the thread continue?

With sensible, knowledge-based posts like Watch's above. Ideally.

I'm thinking upmarket restaurants that don't wish to take responsibility for waiting staff dropping food over customer's clothing might want to post
a disclaimer on their wall - along the lines of "Wear your finest clothing at your own risk - our staff will not be held responsible for dropping greasy cutlery on your clothes." Can't imagine the honesty of the disclaimer would go down to well though!😁

Do they not have cctv ? Surely that would show what had happened

Well numerous posts set out like a court case will become just as repetitive and speculative.

CCTV then small claims court if necessary.

Yeah, and of no help whatsoever to OP, who has asked for advice about how she can convince the restaurant that they are liable. Silly me.

Poor waitress, cannot drop knives, have you ever been working in a restaurant and kitchen, long hours, waiting on people, on your feet, your knees tremble, your ankles start hurting , your wrists get bad joints

I am sorry, cannot have any pity on someone who buys a coat of that price even on a sale and does know not how to wear it, store it and clean it