To think the 'work shy' rhetoric is insulting?

[DeliaDerbyshiresSlippers]

Who are all these great swathes of work shy people? The Express today, never grow tired of rehashing the same old pre-election trump card - convincing people that our most vulnerable are bleeding the country dry (shhh, don't mention the state pension).

Who even believes this stuff anymore? How did slashing benefits during austerity help anything, how did it fix the fucking country? It only created more decaying towns and a system that can no longer support those in need (kids mental health, dentistry).

Who is the demographic this illiterate garbage is aimed at? My guess is moneyed working class 'boot-strappers' (it's hardly a intellectual broadsheet).
I only know of two people who access the benefits system, both disabled and both actually work as much as they can.

Do people really think, considering the utter shit show we are in, that making poorer people even poorer is a good idea? Will it make some peevish armchair grump feel better about having to pay tax? And is this typical armchair grump completely unaware of tax avoidance? Or is that ok, because 'trickle down, blah blah, creating jobs, blah blah)?

The rhetoric itself is punitive and degrading. This idea that everyone in receipt of benefits (inc. in work benefits) is a shirking, scumbag. The language is reminiscent of how prisoners or deviants were discussed in medieval society.

I thought I was non partisan, or at best apolitical, the outlook for the poorest in the UK looks dismal no matter who is in power

Ditto. My family of origin and friends/
acquaintances...working is seen as a mug's game.

perhaps you should put the bottle down. Get some sleep.

I think I'm one of them. I was made redundant a little over a year ago. I have yet to find a job (last couple of interviews I came a very close second...) I have breaks from job hunting because recruiters can be really crap at communication (there are some good ones among the ones who are shit, but it's a bit like OLD in that the good ones aren't representative.) As yet, I've not claimed benefits, so I believe I'm officially one of Rishi's economically inactive 50-somethings.

Politicians should care about me. My vote floats, but I do always vote.

It takes one to know one - if you are venal, corrupt, belligerent and selfish, you are very good at spotting those characteristics in others. The right wing press is stuffed full of such people and, to distract attention away from themselves, they kick the less successful side of the same coin. They have no interest in the moderate majority, or the impact their behaviour has on the majority.

Work needs to pay and at the moment it dosn't. Can't blame people for not wanting to haul themselves into toxic work cultures if they still have to penny pinch to get by.

Working IS a mug's game. I say that as someone who works full time , crazy shift patterns and I love my job.

I think you have more faith politicians than many people do.

I really dislike this kind of small minded, passive aggressive putdown of anyone who has strong and well thought out opinions.

The PP has put forward a position clearly and well. Whatever you think of the politics at least do her the decency of hearing her in good grace.

Accusing someone of being “wound up” because they have strong views is also straight out of the misogynistic playbook. It comes from a starting point that women shouldn’t ever get excited or emotionally involved in any big picture themes and should stick to the small stuff.

The astonishing naïveté of people who think that all benefits claimants are needy. There are vast swathes of people who think that other people paying them to live for free is a divine right. They have zero intention to ever fend for themselves and will even play the victim and berating the taxpayer (aka government) for not giving them more.

I know one person on UC who is disabled and cannot work.

I know one person on UC and DLA who is more than capable of working. They did so aged 18-25, then decided they couldn't be arsed anymore. They openly admit the internet helped them be a long term claimant.

I know one person who has 2 children with autism. They're a full time carer. They're getting £3200 a month. Their partner doesn't work either, as he doesn't need to.

My wages in a full time role after tax are £2200. I have 2 children. I'm a single parent. If I think about things too hard, I get cross, so I try not to think about things too much.

It's more of a problem people not paying their taxes correctly.

Also who can and will work until state pension age of 68!

You'll find more people apply for disability then as you aquire more disease with age.

I believe if you are able to work, you should work.

However I think it's counter productive if someone previously on benefits still has to claim so called in work benefits in order to survive.

Why would, say a parent, go to work if they receive slightly more or the same amount of ££ as being on benefits.

Then there are the costs of working, like clothes, car / public transport fees, lunches, wrap round care for DC, ...
And the additional stress of getting there and back on time, inadequate childcare facilities, trying to give DC healthy home cooked foods, ...

Honestly I can see why some people don't bother with working.

Oh yes it's all the immigrants.
There is often a plethora of reasons why (predominantly women) can't speak English. (Lack of ESOL classes that were dropped by the Tories not helping, also poor literacy skills as come from a country with little education for girls, lack of confidence, no support at home, small children, while their DH is working long anti social hours, social life around religious activity so mix with people speaking their language etc). My mum is an immigrant but from a middle class family so already had been to university and spoke some English. She found it easier to learn at home as she could manage learning from books, she also married my Dad who speaks no Czech even after 60 years of marriage and spending at least 3 months a year there for the last 17 years. It's the same the world over - my neighbours spend 6 months a year in Spain and have done since we moved in 18 years ago. They can't speak more than "dos cervezas por favor". They have time, money and have been educated but fail.

The NHS waiting list for treatments is multiple years long. People with serious, life altering health issues are not being treated, which means many of them can't work in the interim. And it isn't just covid-related. It shouldn't take a genius to predict that gutting mental health services for young people means that they will struggle to make the leap to a productive adulthood. The sheer shortsightedness of the cuts is mind-boggling.

There were zero LCWRA reassessments carried out during covid. Zero. Hundreds of thousands of people who should have been interviewed about their health issues are still claiming when they may no longer be entitled or need the support. It's still not back to normal because the DWP doesn't have the staff. Meanwhile, new claimants have been approved, which swells the figures.

PIP was similar, but they seem to be getting back on track with their reassessments.

There will always be the odd scammers but that's not why the rolls are so high currently.

Yes this. I live in a seaside town which is unfortunately home to a number of rehab centres for addition. They come here to get rehab but end up staying here and staying on drugs. They are all on PIP (can't work because of the addiction). My friends daughter, who is Polish works in a bank. She thinks we are stupid in the UK because the benefits that the addicts get is more than her monthly salary.

Your example of the family with two children with autism, I don't really blame the partner for not working.

Having one child with autism, juggling a full time job with his needs, struggling financially because DH is limited in the hours he can work due to caring for DS, it's destroying us - damaging our health, physical and mental. If we were told we could have more in benefits than we're earning now it would be very tempting, not working might even mean we have some time and energy to look after our own health and wellbeing which would benefit DS as well as he finds us being stressed distressing.

It definitely depends on the area you live. On my estate there's a huge amount of people who won't work. Before the benefit cap on two children was introduced lots of families here kept having kids to keep their benefits and avoid work because they didn't have to look for a job until children were in school.

I've had people asking me if they can tell the job centre that they came for an interview in my workplace so they are still meeting the requirements set by the job centre.

It's passed down to the younger generations as well, people having kids at a young age to avoid work and get higher up on the housing waiting list.

Honestly if you came to my estate in the summer you'd think that you were in a holiday camp, people sit outside with the kids all day smoking and drinking and there's paddling pools out and even the occasional sofa is dragged outside. This world definitely exists if you know where to find it.

Presumably your attitude will depend on whether you know, or have known, people who have deliberately chosen not to work, despite being perfectly capable, able-bodied and reasonably intelligent.

I’ve known just 2, and how they were allowed to get away with refusing jobs for several years, I will never understand. And this was in a SE area where anyone who really wanted a job could find one.

One of them did eventually get their act together, once it finally dawned that nobody was going come knocking on the door with their dream job paying
££££.

The other ended up in prison.

@Angelsrose I agree it's the uber-wealthy to blame primarily. Many of them don't pay any/ enough tax. If we skip a council tax payment they can bankrupt us? Fair? is it fuck.
People on here are blaming migrants, the 'feckless council dweller'. These groups exist, they are human beings with needs who are doing what they can to survive.
The fact is a decent society needs a safety net for everyone, whenever they need it. Of course some people 'always' need it, but equally some never do, but you never know. Anyone can lose their livlihood in a heartbeat. I pay my taxes to help those most in need. The sick, the poor, the elderly. That and the bins to be collected, lol.

I used to work with families and there were some who'd never ever worked and had no intention of ever working. It is annoying when people claim families like these don't exist. They do.

Working life is shit these days and many people work full time in hard jobs and are still poor and having to deal with the benefit system. I’m not surprised people can’t be bothered.

Personally I think successive governments have prioritised business over people. No one in work ought to need benefits. In-work benefits put a band aid over a deeper issue - working isn't paying for many. A 2 parent family with or without a child ought to be able to afford decent housing whilst both are in work.
Why, as a nation, do we accept this status quo?
The benefits argument is pointless whilst wages don't enable us to fully thrive.

Most people in work who need extra to live on are in this position due to the expense of basic housing.
The UK's housing obsession, and it is a dirty and unfair one at that, is the elephant in the room.

I am staying with family at the moment in a moderately touristy area in the north. The houses on this nice street are basic stone terraces. I checked online and their value has gone from £120K in 2009 to over £550K now. This is a bloated and unsustainable rise in costs, which only benefit investors - who incidentally, do not contribute to the economy.

I am not against second homes, but this housing model is toxic. We should ALL be able to afford a 1st home if in work. We need to focus on this and stop pointing the finger at second homes. The issue is multifaceted. Who could blame someone for buying a second home in a country that is literally hyper focused on property above all else? It is the only way many can see of securing investments and a future for their kids.
My aunt had a second home as a holiday let. She recently sold it to buy her grandson a house. He is in full time work and struggling. No one should have to do this in a first world country.

We shouldn't be cutting benefits, they are not east to live on, even if the perks (eye tests, prescriptions) seem decent. Those on benefits in rough areas can't get out once they've been allocated a property, no matter how badly their environment affects their health. I have known a few, older single women who said living on benefits in a bad area made their health issues worse.

The rags love to focus on the perks of life on the dole. How easy people have it. Yes, you can say that if you want to compare to life in a Delhi slum, but our bar should not be that low!
A single woman who can't work will have little choice for safe housing or getting into a position to study or improve her chance in life if she can't drive or get about in an unsafe or depressing environment.

We should not be punishing the vulnerable (who make up most of the long term claimants), we should be making employment PAY. No government I can see right now gives a shiny shit about this. It's all buzzwords and knee jerk fear mongering.
Only a small minority a fraudulent, even though we could all say we know an 'estate' that is heaving with them. It is still not fair to blacken everyone with the same brush.

@DeliaDerbyshiresSlippers very few people want to or enjoy ‘working themselves to death’. It’s tough on family life amongst other things.
There is a whole new question there as to why some young people don’t attain even a basic education…
Yes some jobs are minimum wage, that’s how it works. If you don’t have skills or qualifications then your choice of employment is going to be limited, I hammered that point home to my boys when they were growing up. There should not be the option to refuse to do the jobs you can get because they aren’t well paid or you don’t fancy them. I and many other hard working people rather object to subsidising the idle, work shy.

Strong smell of bootstraps in the room lol