To be fed up of friend putting her kids down

[spanieleyes22]

I spent the afternoon with a friend yesterday. She has 2 DDs 5 and 7. From the moment I arrived she was being cross with them and putting them down. The little one wouldn't eat her lunch- she had a huge portion of rice and fish on her plate. I thought she had done pretty well. I was trying to b encouraging saying just have another bite but her mum was constantly telling me how she wouldn't eat properly and only would eat sweets. Then she started on about the rice that was falling on the floor. She made them pick up every grain. Then they had a few toys out and she kept saying tidy up those toys. But what were they supposed to do? She kept tidying everything up. I left early I couldn't take it any more. Everything they did as wrong even down to the way the little one was blowing her nose. She had a bad cough and cold but her mum said it was her own fault as she wouldn't keep her coat on at school. I was so depressed last night. I could see from their faces that they heard everything she said. She was probably having a bad day but it's not the first or only time I've seen and heard her talk to them like this. It seems to be getting worse. Feel
So sorry for the little girls

This sounds horrible. Do you get the sense your friend is struggling a bit in general? Sounds like she’s not in a good place

Yes she is definitely struggling hence why I went round yesterday. I know she hadn't been out of the flat since coming back from school on Friday. She's told me she sleeps a lot. She slept for 3 hours on Fri afternoon

It sounds as though she's depressed. Could you talk to her about that, and perhaps offer to go to the GP with her? Look after the children after school one afternoon? Has she got family who could help a bit?

She def sounds like she may be depressed. It's hard to see it yourself when you are in this situation but you could have been describing me a few months ago before medication. Hope things work out.

Yeh she is suffering with depression. She's on medication . I'm not judging her but she is very hard to help. I offer say to take the kids but she always says no. I've had depression myself and it's very hard when you're in it. I just feel so bad for the kids they looked so sad yesterday: every time I had a little laugh with them my friend would make another negative comment. I had to leave it was heartbreaking

No that's part of the problem she has no family nearby and hasn't made any friends locally yet.

Anyone any advice . It's like watching in slow motion the damage to her kids

Bump

Not really, sorry. I would’ve said offer to take the children out but she won’t let you.
Ask her to see her G.P.
Are her family aware of how much she’s struggling?
Be blunt and tell her that you’re concerned about her negativity and the effects it’s having? (Risky as she may shut you out).
Encourage her to go to classes - find some and go with her?
I don’t think it’s something you can report.

Yeh I have tried but she always had an excuse as to why it's not possible. I did take the kids to school when she couldn't get a gp appointment so she could go down early and wait there but the meds seem to be making her very tired. Maybe when they kick in she will feel better. It's very hard to
Help someone with depression. She has no family near and is not close to them.

Point out, what she says... They are.

I would make up a story about your own parent telling you were lazy or something and how that affected you.

And that you don't want to pry or judge but it made you feel like doing the opp of what they want.

I feel like I'm walking on eggshells tbh. If I antagonize her she might argue with me and then she will have no friends at all. I am worried about the girls. She can be so fierce to them and shout very loud and I can see they are scared they don't understand what they did. They have often come over to me and said mummy doesn't like me any more and I try and smooth it over and just say oh mum is tired today don't worry everything will be ok. Everything I suggest she has an answer to as why she can't do it . I want to help I understand how she feels but I can't really

I would report this to their school and ask them to consider a referral on the grounds of emotional abuse. At the worst, you've alerted the school and hopefully they can keep an eye on this woman's behaviour.

She loves them she does everything for them she's just struggling and they are getting the brunt of it. It's hard to watch.

That's really difficult, poor girls. You might have to be brave and bite the bullet and tell her you're concerned for her and her mental health and concerned for her girls. Are there any services that you can offer to look into her for - home start, anything to help? Poor family

You sound like a very kind and caring person and reading your description of her making the kids tidy up their toys and the grains of rice off the floor was heartbreaking. I think the kids need you to be present; although she also seems to be triggered by your presence - she obviously feels terrified of judgement or criticism which is why she is getting in there first to defend her position and blaming them.
I remember once angrily trying to make my kids eat their green veg and my friend turning it into a game..."muscles from Brussels "she said flexing her arms, and I was so so grateful although I went on dissing my children for their food refusal...it seemed almost a compulsion for me to complain, and yet that moment lifted so much tension, i was able to copy my friend at other tricky moments.
It is terrible for the children to be put down all the time, I would say something to her about how lovely they are and how helpful, it will sink in that you are praising her not criticising her by praising them.
The story of Deirdre Morley killing her children and her depression and perfectionism really has affected me since I read it...I don't think you can just assume she will sort this out herself.
The children need you in their lives more than your friend needs you to back off. Don't back off.
I would tell her you are worried she is being unkind to the children and that they are behaving as normal children do, you want to help and you can't leave her without assistance, in this situation when she is clearly suffering. Ask her to let you supervise some meals whilst she sleeps or sit with kids whilst she has some time to herself.

I would also report this to the school. You aren't isolating her you are doing quite the opposite, trying to find ways of putting in support.
The shouting is really frightening and abusive. Especially when you are present. It seems to suggest some kind of paranoid defensiveness, that she is right all the time.

That's the other thing the tidying up is a bit extreme . Even as they were playing she tidying up. I've given them toys my dd grew out of but I never see them again. I asked the girls where were all the toys I gave them but they didn't know. Mummy has them they said. Will have to think what to do I feel she needs help. She said to me she never had any toys growing up that they just used to play with things around the house and garden. I don't think she sees any value in play. I'm not sure what she wants them to do though. To me kids need to play

Anyone else any advice I can't stop thinking about this family

I was like this before I went on anti depressants. I was really out of my mind op. I don't remember all of it but I was pretty out of control.
What I would say is, if she is like that in front of you, imagine what she is like alone.
I know some antidepressants taken at a low dose make you sleepy. At a slightly higher dose, they don't. If it is making her sleepy in the day she should take them before bed. If that doesn't help, she needs to go back to her gp.
One tip you could give is, if she finds herself getting angry, to video herself. That may be enough to curb her behaviour because for me, there were moments I could see what was happening. But...how to introduce the idea....it is hard.
I think, OP, if someone had crossed the line of politeness and told me how overboard I was going it might have shocked me enough to change. It would probably end the friendship though because it is humiliating.
In the end for me, it was my 5 year old asking me Why are you so angry mummy? When I was driving erratically and shouting. Instead of going home to my new baby, I drove us both to the local hospital. And just told someone I needed help. I had pnd and pmdd (like an extreme, murderous level of pre menstrual tension). My guilt for what I put my first child through in her first years of life will never go away and she has anger issues because of it.

Could you offer to mind/ take the kids for a few hours? Is it possible she’s not always like this to them but was more trying to act like everything wasn’t falling apart hence the trying to clean etc? I don’t know op, best of luck and well done to you for trying to help and hopefully the fog clears for her soon x

Report her to the school?? Really? What is the school supposed to do based on hearsay about someone's behaviour in their own home? And how will someone's depression be helped by knowing that her friend would go behind her back like that, so she has nobody she can trust, and nowhere where she can be herself? If her MH is already fragile that could push her over the edge.

I think I would gently tell her that she seems unhappy, and that she's being a bit hard on her children. She may disagree, and she may believe that criticising what she sees as bad behaviour is good parenting, in which case it is, unfortunately, her call - what you are posting is, after all, your opinion. I also think that if you can you should help her (and her kids) by being there regularly, and maybe suggesting days out or activities that get her out of the house.

My own mother was probably depressed when we were children (undiagnosed) and was horribly critical and unkind to us. It was relentless. I used to like it when others were there, as whilst it didn't stop her criticism, it took her mind off us and what we were doing when she had someone to talk to. On aunt in particular probably knew what was going on and was good at deflecting situations before they developed.

"She may believe that criticising what she sees as bad behaviour is good parenting in which case unfortunately it is her call"

No it isn't her call.
The children are defenceless.
You were deeply affected by your mother's behaviour ....someone should have told her she was causing life long damage to you.

The OP has offered to take children out but the mother won't allow it