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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are the Americans stupid for allowing Biden to go for another term?

127 replies

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 08/03/2024 16:59

At Mr Biden's age, if I'm as fit and alert as he is, I'd be more than happy.

However, he is supposed to be a president and a president of a of a superpower. Therefore, you will agree with me the man is not cut out to be a president of a nation like the USA. He'd be ok for smaller countries that do not have an importance i the world like the USA but not for the uSA

IMO, those that are pulling the strings are actually hurting a half decent man. For the record, I'm nor for, not agaist his poltical party.

Possibly, some that are running the show, pulling the strings were hoping to step into Bidens shoes if he had a fall or a big moment, don't know.

AIBU to feel his is not the right man for the job?

OP posts:
PedestrianPete · 08/03/2024 21:06

It doesn’t even necessarily matter if Biden wins the election.

The Republican-controlled house can refuse to certify the results and install Trump as president anyway, and given that the current House Speaker is an election-denier, it’s a real possibility.

Meowandthen · 08/03/2024 21:07

ProbablyHungry · 08/03/2024 20:33

I honestly cannot believe that a convicted sex offender with $540m in legal fees outstanding (and counting) is allowed to run for president.

What the actual FUCK???

It’s extraordinary, isn’t it?

I still can’t believe that he was elected after publicly mocking the disabled reporter, let alone everything else he has said and done.

windowframer · 08/03/2024 21:17

Gymnopedie · 08/03/2024 18:14

The current US presidential campaign is the strongest argument there is for keeping the Royal family in the UK.

Because there's never been a decrepit octogenarian king or queen in any country ever.

windowframer · 08/03/2024 21:22

Biden is older and weaker than one would ideally want a president to be.

Trump is a literal fascist who has already incited an insurrection to overturn democratic process when it didn't serve his interests, and will clearly do so again, with bells on given a second chance.

How anyone can draw an equivalence between these two issues, in terms of the danger in voting for each candidate, is absolutely beyond me.

poetryandwine · 08/03/2024 21:50

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 08/03/2024 20:06

I agree with the vast majoirty of posts

Having a president like Biden who the media portrays as a a confused clown is so embarrassing for the Amemricans. It reminds me of the time we had owr clown and a dangerous one at that, Liz Truss. Yes, she blames everyone but herself for the hyper inflation, staggering interest rates and the after math. England was a a laughing stock when she took to number ten thanks to those that voted for her - I bet you if it was just up to the MP's she would have never got in/ Millions are paying the price for her actions.

I'm assuming those proping up Biden are and were hoping he'd move aside and they could step in but the old guy proved to be very resisliant. I guess those that control him are thinking, second time lucky

TBH, I feel sorry for Biden due to the ridicule etc in the media even by the outlets that were initially bugging him up

OP, this garbage is so insidious that, together with your terrible spelling here and in previous posts, I really am wondering if you are some kind of foreign shill. I am glad that @mathanxiety has questioned your logic first.

It does sound like you get your news from RT, GB News, Fox, etc. The respectable American media report opinion polls reflecting concerns about the ages of both Biden and Trump. Trump appears more vigorous but speaks nonsensically. Biden moves slowly and speaks softly but intelligently. Unlike Truss.

If you think the ‘vast majority’ of posts agree with you, come back to us with a rubric for what agreement means and a count. I will replicate your results, or not - you know, the scientific method (STEM PhD here). We can easily decide publicly whether your claim is correct.

PrestonHood121 · 08/03/2024 21:51

I voted for Nikki Haley to get the Republican nomination in my state. Fat lot of good that did me.

mathanxiety · 08/03/2024 22:02

PedestrianPete · 08/03/2024 21:06

It doesn’t even necessarily matter if Biden wins the election.

The Republican-controlled house can refuse to certify the results and install Trump as president anyway, and given that the current House Speaker is an election-denier, it’s a real possibility.

33 Senate seats and all 435 House seats are up for election this November.

The new House will convene on January 3rd, 2025. As long as the delegates elect a Speaker, the business of the House can proceed. On the 6th January, the House will certify the presidential election (assuming no untoward events).

PedestrianPete · 08/03/2024 22:15

mathanxiety · 08/03/2024 22:02

33 Senate seats and all 435 House seats are up for election this November.

The new House will convene on January 3rd, 2025. As long as the delegates elect a Speaker, the business of the House can proceed. On the 6th January, the House will certify the presidential election (assuming no untoward events).

Yes, in normal times, that is how it would work.

But the Speaker has the ability to delay certifications, and could (legally) delay the certification of some Democrats to ensure the Republicans remain in control on Jan 6th. They could then refuse to certify the votes of certain states, meaning that no candidate reaches the 270 electoral college threshold, meaning that the election would be settled on a 1-vote, per-state basis, likely handing victory to Trump.

And the current Speaker was the ringleader of the Republican house members’ refusal to certify the last election. Then, he was in the minority, this time he could (legitimately or otherwise) be in control.

tobee · 08/03/2024 22:19

I read Biden polled the best against other Dems possibles.

As one of the U.S late night chat hosts said I'd rather have a Weekend at Bernie's situation with Biden winning in November every time over Trump becoming president again.

PedestrianPete · 08/03/2024 22:26

@mathanxiety

Newsweek explain how the election can legally be stolen, by the GOP, here:

https://www.newsweek.com/whether-us-democracy-house-cards-house-opinion-1864092

BinkyBeaufort · 08/03/2024 22:29

If you'd put the question mark after the 4th word the answer would be yes.
As the alternative is Trump, then a seriously qualified no.

GoosieLucie · 08/03/2024 22:30

ProbablyHungry · 08/03/2024 20:33

I honestly cannot believe that a convicted sex offender with $540m in legal fees outstanding (and counting) is allowed to run for president.

What the actual FUCK???

In a word, money.

HRTQueen · 08/03/2024 22:41

eight months of gruelling campaigning how is he going to manage

I struggle to understand why he hasn’t stepped aside more importantly neither can my family/friends who live in the US I’m not sure all shall vote

Trump supporters don’t care as he has always tripped up talked nonsense but he has somehow tapped into people wanting a real political change so the support will continue regardless

That isn’t the same for Biden he is going to be relying on voters getting out to vote for him to stop Trump but will they have faith in him when he appears so frail and too often confused

poetryandwine · 08/03/2024 22:58

What are you trying to accomplish, @PedestrianPete ?

Everyone with an American connection, and I believe this includes @mathanxiety , knows this already. One might think you are trying to publicise a blueprint for subverting democracy, for reasons best known to yourself.

mathanxiety · 08/03/2024 23:27

@EasternStandard
It's hard to say how the legal headwinds will affect Trump. There are Republican voters out there who would hesitate to vote for a convicted criminal. They might stay home instead of switching to Biden

Another factor is the economy, in particular interest rates, food prices, and gas prices. If these ease up over the course of the summer and into the autumn, it's possible that could translate into votes for Biden. Thanks to higher interest rates for the past while, many voters are sitting on a good deal of real estate, waiting to turn it into money.

The conventions have yet to be held. The overall image of the parties and candidates can be affected by how the convention runs. The Democrats might have reason to rue the choice of Chicago, which is coming off a year of high profile criminality that will provide excellent fodder for criticism of woke politics (brazen robberies, car jacking, shootings; the new mayor is a former public school teacher and teachers' union organiser). The city has also found itself grappling with huge numbers of migrants bussed from Texas. There are several GOP dog whistle opportunities there (and in fact in the predicament of all major cities dealing with homelessness, mental health provision, drugs, crime, and problems created by GOP governor Abbott of Texas).

In addition, Democratic conventions tend to attract many fringe and special interest protest groups, sometimes quite radicalised. This year, we can expect to see a good deal of pro-Palestinian protest as well as environmentalists and others. It may be hard for the party message to break through the noise. Illinois governor (Democrat) JB Pritzker is said to have his eyes on national office and will be working with mayor Johnson (Democrat) and the Democratic National Committee to make sure it all goes smoothly (ploughing resources into creating a positive story). But it's an unknown, and the shadow of the 1968 Democratic National Convention has hung stubbornly over the city since then.

First-time or occasional voters who chose Biden last time around were younger than Trump voters.

Biden also attracted blue-collar male voters who shunned Hillary Clinton, and he openly supported the auto workers during their recent strike.

While Trump made unexpected inroads into the Hispanic vote, Biden got the majority of Hispanic votes last time. It remains to be seen how Republican attitudes to the current migrant situation - particularly the shunting of thousands of men, women, and children to northern cities in winter with no suitable clothing or prospect of shelter - will affect Hispanic voting.

The issue of reproductive rights can galvanize voters either way. However, this is an issue Biden could use to gain or retain voters, particularly women, bearing in mind victories for pro choice referenda in normally conservative and religious Kansas and Kentucky in recent times. The reality of the situation for women in states with abortion bans or severe restrictions has now hit many voters - it's no longer a hypothetical problem.

Above all though, there are Trump's own goals - the optics of January 6th are appalling and will cause many to either stay home or change sides.

Then there is the corruption trial that he recently lost. Some Republican voters are decent men and women who do not approve of crooks, and are less than impressed by a candidate whose 'business acumen' turned out to be a talent for lying to everyone for years.

His first presidential campaign was based largely on his own persona, his outsider story, his contrast with Clinton, his novelty, but if he relies on that again it will come across as a joke told twice. The people who will laugh at anything will love it, but there are people who feel the joke has worn thin, and his bid for election is nothing but a vanity project.

In short, it's eight months til November. Too early to tell.

PedestrianPete · 08/03/2024 23:29

poetryandwine · 08/03/2024 22:58

What are you trying to accomplish, @PedestrianPete ?

Everyone with an American connection, and I believe this includes @mathanxiety , knows this already. One might think you are trying to publicise a blueprint for subverting democracy, for reasons best known to yourself.

What a bizarre post.

For one, I do not think most Americans do realize exactly how the election could be legally stolen by the GOP (and yes, other past Houses could have stolen it to, but we haven’t previously had an election denier in the Speakers chair). Most simply do not have the knowledge of the intricacies of the system, because (until recently) elections have usually been honoured in good faith.

I would, however, dare say that the GOP already know exactly how they can steal the election and, even if it had somehow passed them by, I would think that Newsweek and the Washington Examiner (who have published detailed articles on the topic) have far greater reach than me posting about it on Mumsnet.

I, for one, believe that the more people who had advance knowledge of the ways Trump would try to steal the 2020 election, the fewer people would have been taken in by his lies surrounding it.

Perhaps you think that meekly shutting your mouth and letting things play out as they will is the best approach, but I think it’s vitally important to shed a light on the attempts to overthrow democracy that might be in the works.

And of course, if all Americans know this already, as you seem to think, then what would the harm be in me highlighting it for British readers?

GuinnessBird · 08/03/2024 23:30

If you think Biden is bad you should see Trump, he can barely string a sentence together, I think he has dementia.

montysma1 · 08/03/2024 23:37

I can't get my head round the fact that a criminal still facing even more charges and a sex criminal to boot is even eligible to run

mathanxiety · 09/03/2024 00:03

PedestrianPete · 08/03/2024 22:15

Yes, in normal times, that is how it would work.

But the Speaker has the ability to delay certifications, and could (legally) delay the certification of some Democrats to ensure the Republicans remain in control on Jan 6th. They could then refuse to certify the votes of certain states, meaning that no candidate reaches the 270 electoral college threshold, meaning that the election would be settled on a 1-vote, per-state basis, likely handing victory to Trump.

And the current Speaker was the ringleader of the Republican house members’ refusal to certify the last election. Then, he was in the minority, this time he could (legitimately or otherwise) be in control.

The scenarios of Medish and McCleary have always been possible, and yes, there is a glaring absence of good faith in the current political climate.

However, the scenarios depend on either a GOP win or a very close election featuring many very close results in individual districts. Yes, those two eventualities are possible.

Also possible is a more clear-cut Democratic win overall or in individual districts, or the decisions of courts to certify Democrat winners in close elections. Courts will usually rule on electoral disputes in a timely manner.

Crispedia · 09/03/2024 00:41

Herdinggoats · 08/03/2024 17:11

He makes trump look like a better option, which is fucking terrifying.

Trump tried to overthrow the election result and is a wannabe dictator. Sure Biden may be old - his STOU speech was good - but Trump is never the better option.

PedestrianPete · 09/03/2024 00:53

mathanxiety · 09/03/2024 00:03

The scenarios of Medish and McCleary have always been possible, and yes, there is a glaring absence of good faith in the current political climate.

However, the scenarios depend on either a GOP win or a very close election featuring many very close results in individual districts. Yes, those two eventualities are possible.

Also possible is a more clear-cut Democratic win overall or in individual districts, or the decisions of courts to certify Democrat winners in close elections. Courts will usually rule on electoral disputes in a timely manner.

Agree on all counts, but I worry about the likelihood of a sufficiently decisive Biden win.

Herdinggoats · 09/03/2024 07:51

Crispedia · 09/03/2024 00:41

Trump tried to overthrow the election result and is a wannabe dictator. Sure Biden may be old - his STOU speech was good - but Trump is never the better option.

🙄 I never said he was the better option. Hence the use of the phrase “fucking terrifying”. I said that he made Trump look like a better option, which to millions of American swing voters he will.

People need to be able to separate out what they think will happen from what they WANT to happen when discussing election outcomes. You don’t become a trump supporter for saying that against 81 year old dotty Biden, trump will appeal more to voters. I am bemoaning the fact that without a better alternative a trump is likely to be re-elected.

DistinguishedSocialCommentator · 09/03/2024 10:04

poetryandwine · 08/03/2024 21:50

OP, this garbage is so insidious that, together with your terrible spelling here and in previous posts, I really am wondering if you are some kind of foreign shill. I am glad that @mathanxiety has questioned your logic first.

It does sound like you get your news from RT, GB News, Fox, etc. The respectable American media report opinion polls reflecting concerns about the ages of both Biden and Trump. Trump appears more vigorous but speaks nonsensically. Biden moves slowly and speaks softly but intelligently. Unlike Truss.

If you think the ‘vast majority’ of posts agree with you, come back to us with a rubric for what agreement means and a count. I will replicate your results, or not - you know, the scientific method (STEM PhD here). We can easily decide publicly whether your claim is correct.

You are the one that is posting "garbage" as you know more about the channels you have posted most of which I did not know even edited never mind watch

A sad fact of life is too many people like you post "garbage" just because you disagree with the others perspective.

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 09/03/2024 10:56

The only thing I know about these channels and media outlets is what I read in the mainstream media and semi-professionally. The use of media to subvert elections is a professional interest of esteemed friends.

As I hold dual US citizenship and travel America periodically, I have the dubious privilege of watching Fox now and again at airports, etc. It is hideously fascinating in small doses but small doses are more than ample.

I love debate. But this isn’t debate; it is the most recent of several threads moaning about Biden’s age we’ve had recently. No one disagrees, but what is the purpose? Trump is only a bit younger and appears to have worse cognition, so why did you not moan equally about him? Especially when the stakes are so high.

poetryandwine · 09/03/2024 11:22

PedestrianPete · 08/03/2024 23:29

What a bizarre post.

For one, I do not think most Americans do realize exactly how the election could be legally stolen by the GOP (and yes, other past Houses could have stolen it to, but we haven’t previously had an election denier in the Speakers chair). Most simply do not have the knowledge of the intricacies of the system, because (until recently) elections have usually been honoured in good faith.

I would, however, dare say that the GOP already know exactly how they can steal the election and, even if it had somehow passed them by, I would think that Newsweek and the Washington Examiner (who have published detailed articles on the topic) have far greater reach than me posting about it on Mumsnet.

I, for one, believe that the more people who had advance knowledge of the ways Trump would try to steal the 2020 election, the fewer people would have been taken in by his lies surrounding it.

Perhaps you think that meekly shutting your mouth and letting things play out as they will is the best approach, but I think it’s vitally important to shed a light on the attempts to overthrow democracy that might be in the works.

And of course, if all Americans know this already, as you seem to think, then what would the harm be in me highlighting it for British readers?

Hi, @PedestrianPete

An interesting comment. In morning’s light I am more ambivalent about my own comment although I am not sure getting detailed about the ways things can go wrong helps.

Yesterday when I saw your message embedded in many pointless comments it felt like another one ginning things up.

Today it doesn’t.

But although I agree that reasonable Americans were caught on the back foot in 2020, I have been in the US in Dec and Jan. Getting out in front of Trump’s likely machinations is one of the hottest topics amongst everyone who does not support him and the only topic amongst election experts.

We need solutions but my opinion remains that anything bordering on teeth gnashing or seeming to provide clever ideas to Trump supporters (even when that is not the intention) stirs the pot. My friends who work in the area of elections (and subversion thereof) would like us all to stay very calm.

OTOH if your post can energise MumsNetters to support free and fair elections and their outcomes in Britain, America and around the world, so much the better.