Are that many parents relaxed about school attendance?

[Orangeandgold]

I went into the office and my colleague was ranting about her children. Both are teens, one in year 10 or 11 (GCSE years) and they convinced her that they do not need to go to school because of the train strikes (this was a few weeks ago).

I asked her if her children’s school was local and if they could have taken the bus instead. She said they could have taken the bus or even walked but they were stressing her out and she had a big meeting at work and so she’s let them stay at home. She was fined a few months ago because they didn’t go into school. She’s started keeping emergency funds for fines because her children’s attendance isn’t great.

This can’t be “the new normal” now. I’ve heard other stories from mum friends that arnt that bothered. Another friend pulled her teen out of school to attend a baby scan.

I understand people have “lost trust” in the education system etc. But AIBU for thinking that parents should really make the effort to get their children to school.

Growing up it was such a big deal for parents to do this. Unless my DD is ill she has to go in and if she is unhappy about something I will speak directly to teachers/headteachers/relevant parents to sort it out.

I think it's been quite widely recognised that there's been a cultural shift in parental attitudes to attendance so I'm surprised you're getting so much push back here. Covid did change things I think.

Like many others I felt the pendulum had swung too far the other way with Ofsted's laser focus on attendance, schools giving out rewards for full attendance and so on. But now there are too many parents who are very laid back about school. I have a school mum friend who keeps her (healthy and robust) primary age child off at the slightest hint of a sniffle which means he's at about 65% attendance, yes he's still young but it doesn't seem like a great path to go down.

It’s not how it is for most people; no. The problem is it’s usually the children that need to be in school most, who are continually off
This sums it up.

For some situations there's a range of complex factors affecting attendance (eg ongoing very poor mental health, unsupported SEN needs) but others come from parental attitudes.

In my experience it doesn't surprise me when a child has poor attendance, their parents are happy to keep them off, and the parents themselves don't value education/didn't have positive educational experiences themselves. It's an intergenerational cycle in some cases.

I’ve never been super strict with attendance. From year 5 ish, I trusted them to tell me if they felt well enough. They didn’t take advantage. They know that education is important and we show that at home. They’ve had days off when not exactly ill, but just feel low or tired. I think it’s important to push sometimes but recognise when they just need a break. Mental health and your relationship with your child is important too. Secondary school are a difficult place to be.

My year 10 daughters attendance isn’t great but GCSEs are easy to keep up with by using bbc bite size, cgp books and YouTube. With the staffing issues in school, it’s often better to learn it from those resources at home anyway. Despite my daughters lower than ideal attendance, she’s predicted high grades. It depends on the child and parent though. My daughter is studious and we’re very much ‘on it’ at home. Her attendance isn’t impacting her grades, even the school have had to stop saying it’ll impact grades.

I think it's been quite widely recognised that there's been a cultural shift in parental attitudes to attendance so I'm surprised you're getting so much push back here. Covid did change things I think.

There's been a change in that attitudes now are different from eg 10 years ago, notwithstanding that as a pp pointed out, a lot of absence is due to sickness and the poor health service. It's just that the 2000-2010s model was itself a departure from what went before. It's possible that was the historical anomaly.

Yr 10 and 11 are important years and i imagine the majority of parents who might be a bit relaxed about a day off here and there at primary would tighten up for those years. So i think the colleague isn't typical.

I think the reasons for bad attendance are as many and varied as families are.

I think giving out rewards to kids in school for good attendance is a particularly shite idea as most younger kids aren't responsible for the set up at home.

I'd imagine she's struggling. If you have generally malleable, easy going teens then you won't have come across this. If you have a couple of stroppy teens refusing to get out of bed, how on earth can you make them?

Yes you can take away phones, gadgets, pocket money, anything else they value but it doesn't always make any difference. I used to drive to work with the router in the boot of the car.

Is it normal to spend a third of the year with the sniffles?

@JustDiscoveredBueno some children have rhinitis or mild allergies, so yes for them it is.

I keep my 12 year old dd off school occasionally. I think everyone needs a mental health day at times. We either chill at home, go shopping or take our horses for a nice long ride. She really benefits from it. Her attendance is over 95% though

I find this attitude absolutely incredibly. Your daughter should be in a school. BBC Bitesize will not teach your daughter GCSEs.

Yes I’m a teacher but the students with poor attendance are ALWAYS the ones with lower grades. Also it sends the message that teachers aren’t that important, which feeds into behaviour problems etc.

It always starts out as a slippery slope. A few days here, doesn’t feel like it now and then in years 7 and 8. They don’t have a chance to build their resilience, to just go to achool
when they’re not in a great mood etc. Then when the pressure steps up with GCSEs, or they start finding it difficult, it all goes to pot. Have seen it time and time again. I find it so incredibly frustrating.

all these parents think they’re being so cool and liberal but actually they’re not doing their job: parenting. Their children will have worse grades and lower resilience as a result.

I'd have though that an extreme example - but honestly I do now wonder.

Though DD2 came home saying her form tutor is telling the kids that get marked in in morning and afternoons registrations - if they don't get marked into lessons their parents will be fined - which I'm not sure they'd get far with.

Having said that they've have huge numbers of lesson with cover teachers - few where no adult turns up - they positively encourage youngest to leave classroom when noise is too much for her rather than deal with noise- they send kids to isolation for minor of offences while assaults seem to get ignored - very restricted where they can eat, extreme restrictions around toilet access no coats allowed to be worn on site. even in wet and cold. It's not a great place to be honestly.

I still send youngest in unless unwell and tell her she need to be in all lessons - honestly can't wait till she can leave.

Absence for such as the reason you state is still pretty rare I think, op. Falling attendance has clearly become more of a problem since Covid though. We've just had a letter from the local authority with the statistics. I have no doubt that some parents do have a lax attitude to education, but those parents always have done. Mental ill health and SEN do seem to be driving up the figures. I was a hair's breadth away from allowing dd to stay home this morning, but by then I'd tried everything to coax her into wearing the World Book Day costume she no longer felt able to wear (she's ND so anything like this throws her into the heights of anxiety). I did persevere, and somehow.managed to turn things around, but I honestly nearly gave up. Emotionally based school avoidance in children has become much more prevalent.

OP you are the same age as my older children and I took them on holiday during term time every year. They also had the odd day when family from abroad visited and the odd day when we would go somewhere interesting. Their friend's families did likewise so I'm not so sure that it didn't happen when you were at school. Dc's HT used to positively encourage enrichment days out of school. Then in secondary there was a fair amount of truancy, not by mine it has to be said but they knew plenty who wouldn't be in school every day. I think it's easy if you have biddable children to not grasp that a teen determined not to go to school is pretty much unmoveable if they decide not to go.

Think it depends on the school cohort tbh! In my school nobody bunked off, in DH’s, about 50% of the kids were permanently missing by year 10 (this was early 90s).

DS has a near-perfect attendance record, but then he also has two parents in FT employment, who would have to take a day of annual leave if he was off school. So our bar is high (proper fever or D&V, basically). If you are a SAHP with younger kids at home, keeping the school-age ones off is probably more tempting.

I was looking at DS’s school average attendance stats this term, and noticed it’s around 95% in EYFS and KS1, but drops to 85-90% in KS2. One class had an average attendance of 83%, which honestly shocked me.

It’s possible there’s one kid who has been off sick all year and skewed the stats, but I also wondered if KS2 were more affected by the pandemic? DS is in year 2 (so end of KS1), and he was in nursery during lockdown and doesn’t really remember it. The year 4-6 children must have been much more affected.

I don’t think what you describe is the norm no.
But have you read all the other threads recently about the issues in schools?! Might help you to understand more why attendance is such a hot topic @Orangeandgold

We are strict about them going to school in the same way we are expected to attend work. Imo it does them no favours to think random days off here and there are acceptable.

We have close family friends in India and believe me, they are absolutely ON it with their children’s education. Their yr 9 equivalent child was doing creative writing courses online through the Christmas holidays, the dad sets them both book reports each week etc. we are educated professionals with five degrees between us so generally on it with the academics, but seeing the parents commitments to their kids education was eye opening.

This is the world they are ALL headed into and it’s going to be sink or swim.

Not being snippy asking this ; have a genuine question

As a high expectation family, are you not worried that allowing them to have a day off when “slightly” under the weather will feed in to poor attendance at uni and then in the workplace? Also with friendships and then with partners?

It’s hard to say this without sounding holier than thou but I thought school was the place where you tested yourself as a child, if you felt slightly unwell, took a junior paracetamol and carried on, where you learn that you often feel tired or sniffly with headache or out of sorts, but if you focus your attention elsewhere it’s usually ok? You build resilience in other words?

Also, don’t your dc find missing a whole chunk of curriculum when on holiday hinders their work?
At my dc’s school they go at quite a pace.

I agree with you about the insane focus on attendance though to the exclusion of everything else.

I think they need to look at why dc are absent frequently. Obviously habits formed during Covid have something to do with it. But also this insane tick box learning plays a part and the tunnel vision emphasis on sciences with no outlet for creativity. Poor low level discipline that’s disruptive is another reason. And the ridiculous amount of things that need doing apart from study.

I remember skipping to school with my plimsolls and reading book and that was it! Now dc are judged on their lunch, their projects, whether they have grown a plant for the eco garden, whether they I’ve remembered their archery gauntlet and drawn a poster for World Peace day! Honestly it leaves very little time for family life!

Mumsnet could I ask please why my post has been suspended please? I don’t think I have written anything controversial at all.

Edited to say: in fact I went out of my way to be polite.

I'm of the old fashioned 'if you're not covered in blood/projectile vomiting/unconscious, it's off to school' I'm afraid. None of this 'I'm tired/I've got the sniffles/belly ache' nonsense.

I don't think it's normal/all parents not bothering.

My own son is 10 and in Y5 at primary. In the whole time he has been at the school, I think he has had 4-5 days off. Once because of vomiting from food poisoning (2 days) and 2/3 when he has been really suffering with something like a very bad cold. Minor sniffles he goes in.
No term time holidays - I teach anyway so we can't.

Luckily he doesn't get ill much and he does like school.

The secondary I teach at is in a very deprived area. Attendance overall is very good and most kids have great attendance. We are very hot on attendance - our pastoral team do an amazing job chasing those regularly off school. We do it because we cannot teach people who aren't there. All the research shows that attendance impacts on final outcomes. Kids who regularly miss days do end up with gaps. For instance, I teach a girl who is regularly off (including for a holiday!) - her attendance is 80% which probably doesn't sound awful but this week, she missed 2/3 of my lessons so missed a lot of input on something and therefore had no clue when she came back.

With 29 other children in the room, I can't sit with her for ages catching her up.

It really does make a difference if kids don't have good attendance.

My aunty was born in 1957 and wasn't a great fan of school. The truancy officer was always at my nana's. My nana used to have to take her to school to make sure she got there - and she used to sneak out the back. Her school year was affected by the raising of school leaving age from 15 to 16 - which went down a treat.
Funnily enough as an adult she went back into education, got several degrees and ended her work days as a headteacher!

My daughter is in school as much as she can be. At the moment that is hovering around 90%, it’s been slightly lower.

She is predicted all 8s at GCSE as her minimum targets and is academically very able.

We are doing our job as parents very well. Our daughter is autistic and the secondary school environment is very difficult for her. We have to strike a balance of school and the difficulties her autism causes for her. We work with the school and medical professionals to do what is right for her. She sometimes needs downtime and will sleep for 20 hours. Resilience? She copes with so much more than many, and manages to be kind, think situations through and be non judgemental, unlike you.

Think before you type.

We have an older child whose attendance was always above 95%, usually 98%. He is NT and breezed through school and college both academically and socially. He’s now at uni and achieving well.

Now, jog on with your judgement. Teachers really should know better than most about the challenges that face some children and being ND is a very common reason for lower attendance. But your tiny mind didn’t even stop to think that there may be a reason. There are some fab teachers, but some really let them profession down.

Now jog on with your judgement.

Very judgemental push @Bennettsister.

We’re in a similar situation @InTheShiningStars. Autistic child, 87% attendance but academically very able. It’s disappointing some teachers are clueless.

POST, instead of push

My partners kids attendance is so bad. They wake up say I don’t feel well. Oh stay at home then darling. We have little say as they live with no rules mummy. If my partner says a word he gets shot down. When I was a kid, I’d be told if you’re that ill they will send you home 😂 depends on the parents. In your example the mum forgot her role and she basically couldn’t be bothered to parent