to think this could end in another scandal?

[IClaudine]

Given the Horizon scandal do we really trust the government on this - using AI to scan the bank accounts of benefit claimants, their partners, parents and landlords?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/mar/04/ministers-urged-to-scrap-plans-for-surveillance-of-benefit-claimants-bank-accounts

Oh well!

Don't like the sound of that at all

In essence they want to trawl everyone's bank accounts. Every family will have someone in it recieving some degree of means tested benefits. How is this legal?

They think it may save 380million

That's peanuts for the removal of privacy

Nope! This will go wrong one way or another. Let's hope it doesn't end in someone killing themselves over the threat of conviction and fines because some AI robot incorrectly says they are committing benefit fraud.

They will happily chase after "benefit cheats" but do nothing about the many so-called loopholes that enable wealthier people and companies to avoid paying tax.
It's so disgusting. Always ready to kick the poorest, take away from the poorest and reward the richest. Please God we get a new bunch of people at the helm after the next election.

Agree with all of you. This is a very slippery slope.

I'd like to hear from the people who voted IABU.

Parents and landlords?!! WTF?!!

Ignoring the AI issues, you might be able to argue that if you want to claim benefits it’s fair enough that you might have to agree to provide access bank statements to prevent fraud. WTF should the government be allowed to spy on parents and landlords of benefit claimants without their consent though?!! Very worrying…

It's not just means tested benefits. It is intended to cover State Pension too, and that is a contributory benefit which is not (yet) means tested. If they get away with that, it will be extended to cover child benefit and goodness knows what else.

Totally off topic but funnily enough there’s a story in the news today about a load of tumbleweed that blew into a town in America ….

https://news.sky.com/story/tumbleweed-engulfs-streets-in-utah-and-nevada-13086991

That is so bizarre!

I think this is really scary and will go wrong. I cant believe that they can start looking at partners and parents too.

I can't understand how that can be allowed. I can see how access to bank accounts can be made a requirement receiving benefit, but partners, parents and landlords.

This is ridiculous.

I expect people will die as a direct result of this policy when someone on PIP gets caught up in the mess it will cause and can't cope, and I can't see on what grounds one child of mine receiving benefits of any kind justifies the govt monitoring my bank account (not that I believe they should be looking in anyones).

Why would any private landlord rent to anyone who even might get a UC top up if it means the govt can monitor their bank accounts?

It doesn't matter. They are all self-serving muppets.

The net would also trawl the private banking data of people related to welfare claimants including partners, parents and landlords.

I couldn't see the government's reasoning for this overreach. Don't particularly like them doing it for claimants but can understand the reasoning is to catch someone claiming benefits despite having huge savings or a good job. But landlords??

Actually this probably won't happen, I'm sure I read somewhere that a lot of MPs are rental landlords. They won't like their bank accounts scraped either.

Doesn't it go against caldicott principles? Specifically numbers 1 and 4.

Principle 1: justify the purpose(s) for using confidential information.
Principle 2: use confidential information only when it is necessary.
Principle 3: use the minimum necessary confidential information.
Principle 4: access to confidential information should be on a strict need-to-know basis.

Pretty sure you already have to sign to allow dole to cross-reference/check claims

The LL and parent thing won’t happen, it’s designed to worry non-benefit claimants so that when it’s clarified they can be relieved that it’s only claimants

And as up thread, that’s seen as perfectly fine, and it all gives the impression that something is being done to clamp down on the 200’tvs, mobility lamborghinis and fainting goats

And as up thread, that’s seen as perfectly fine, and it all gives the impression that something is being done to clamp down on the 200’tvs, mobility lamborghinis and fainting goats

Oh yes, don't forget the goats!

So this would give a landlord even more power to evict a tenant claiming HB to pay their rent, as they wouldn't want to risk having their bank accounts snooped... and I wouldn't really blame them.

I can believe it, TBH.

I have a friend who has her adult son's UC and PIP go into her own bank account as he is unable to manage his own money.

I am on UC, and had to show bank statements etc when I claimed to prove I was under the savings threshold.

From what I understand, this monitoring is to make sure claimants still remain under this threshold and to see if they have any undisclosed savings.

But like many others, I worry it will be used to do more than that... monitor where our money is going and what we are spending it on. That is sinister.

The net would also trawl the private banking data of people related to welfare claimants including partners, parents and landlords.

How to further raise homelessness and further break up families and relationships, and isolate the individual while simultaneously further demonizing those who often government themselves have manipulated into the 'receiving benefits' trap.

Parents, pensioners, poorly paid workers, disabled workers, on top of those more traditionally reliant on 'welfare' such as disabled unable to work, or the unemployed.

That's before we get to the point of telling individuals they don't need some of what they receive because they have chosen to buy expensive books instead of putting the money into their funeral plan/pension, insurance ect.

LittleGreenDragons
I couldn't see the government's reasoning for this overreach. The overeach as you rightly call it, will create hostility, shunning, and resentment towards those seen as 'causing' others to 'have to have' their privacy breached, by needing any form of benefits in the first place.

It creates another social divide between those entitled to privacy as they have access to enough money, and aren't in relationships with, related to, or renting to those who do not.

If the bill passes, which it looks like it has/is going to.. there is going to be a 'test and learn' in 2025 before it starts to roll out in 2026/27, hopefully by then we'll have a new government- although there's no guarantee they won't decide to push through with it. Who knows. But the best bet we have is to vote out the current government. It's not about having 'nothing to hide' this is a very frightening move from the current government..... especially the checking of pensioners accounts.