AIBU - to not want to work outside my contracted hours

[Clove76]

Bit of background - I’m a Speech and Language Therapist, work 3 days a week and find I’m unable to do my job in the hours I’m paid for. There’s just so much admin on top of the appointments to get done each day that I can’t help but have to do that bit extra to keep up (just basic documentation and reports, I’m certainly not doing tasks above and beyond what’s expected).

I’ve worked for 3 organisations now (including government and private) and it’s the same scenario in each.

I know for a fact I’m not the only one who’s having to do more to ‘keep up’, as I had considered perhaps I’m the problem and just too slow.

Husband who has been my sounding board on this (and whether to stay in my profession) thinks most professional jobs require a bit of extra time to get things done. I don’t want to believe that’s true. So I pose the question - what do you do for a job and how frequently do you work outside the agreed hours? Am I being unreasonable to expect that some weeks I could just get away with doing my contracted hours?

I’m just so annoyed because I think I could love my job if I just felt the admin side of it was awarded as much time as it needs. As it stands I don’t think I can stay in this job much longer and am considering taking a much lower paid job that I can guarantee only requires me to work within the stated hours. I want to be more present for my kids and husband and not feel constant guilt that I haven’t done something.

The problem with this everyone does the extra so it becomes expected. You absolutely should NOT do this. I don't work one minute after I'm paid. If its not getting done in work time, they need to be employing more people. This comes back to you in a way, you need to stop the extra or be paid for it. Are you in a union?

Wouldn’t make a quick decision that affects your pay and pension without doing considering the medium and long term imoact on your personal learning ability.

Would work out the actual hours and pay per hour, value of pension, then see what your other options are to earn equivalent or more.

I’m a primary teacher and feel I work ridiculous hours to make my day teaching possible. I wish I could change it but the paperwork has steadily increased over the years and if I didn’t go in early and work late at night then I know I wouldn’t be prepared.
My dh is the same, he feels that yes there is usually a bit of extra work always needing done but he doesn’t agree with the amount of time it takes up- nights, weekends and holidays.

Customer service for a big 6 energy company. I do not work outside my contracted hours unless I'm on a phone call that overruns. There is no admin to do to be fair and I only get paid £24k so nah. I think my area manager works outside contracted hours but they are on £70k salaries.

For your type of job I think it's normal. Presumably your actual sessions are within working hours but it's the paperwork that takes a bit longer.

I have a family of teachers and they seem to do marking every night. Lawyer friends also don't work fixed hours either.

My job is working hours only. It is basic admin and I clock on and off. But it is not a professional job.

I work 10-15 hours extra each week on top of the hours I'm paid to get everything done. 10-20 hours each holiday too to stay on top of everything (as a secondary teacher).

It really shouldn't be like this, but unfortunately many professions have workloads that cannot be completed in contracted hours.

It depends on what your paid really. I'm not even sure what my contracted hours are technically but I work the hours I need. At the moment, this includes doing 3 or 4 hours every night and then more at the weekend because a lot of deadlines are falling at the same time. DH works similar hours. But we are both in senior professional roles where we are well paid to recognise that. We also both work for flexible organisations so I finish early to do the school run twice a day and that's no problem at all. Ditto if we have to stay home because DS is sick or during the holidays - we often don't need to take the time as annual leave or unpaid leave.

Which is a long way of saying yes, I work more than my contracted hours for sure but the return is a huge amount of flexibility and a well paid role.

So when I've worked in private professional roles it was a mix
First company - no TOIL no OT
2nd company - no TOIL but OT
3rd - no OT but TOIL
The expectation is you work to complete the task/job - not so easy when you rely on others to
My partner at the level he is gets OT but if he progressed would get none as it would be expected as senior role.

I currently work in Healthcare and all of our clinicians work OT so a lot did compressed weeks and do 4 day weeks or 9 day fortnight. The addition of travelling between visits, complex clients, timeframes and KPIs and unreasonable expectations mean they all seem fed up with people going part time or even just leaving to do NMW jobs

If it's the admin side have you spoke to your colleagues about any useful ways of working. E.g. voice dictation of notes?

I would be claiming all my TOIL and making a point of the reality of the job but even just small things like clients not answering the phones, following up with other professionals add more things to the day.

As a 3 day week worker I would.expect a small amount of administrative catch up on my first day to sift through emails, read meeting notes etc but I guess it depends on you work

It depends on pay, doesn’t it?

I am a lawyer, I don’t expect to work my contracted hours, and my pay reflects that.

Most professional jobs come with ongoing responsibility - and it sounds as though it is responsibility that is bothering you as well as time.

Why on earth should individuals keep businesses and organisations afloat by working for free.
So long as folk keep doing this, they will keep taking the piss.

I’m an SLT as well and have worked in a number of other professions. I think it is normal for professional work I’m afraid & SLT has been better than other professional jobs.

However, SLTs are not paid much in relation to other professions (in common with other AHPs) - but it may be that we have more paperwork than others? Not sure as I don’t know enough about physios etc. I now have a job where I am paid hourly - which works well imo.

Maybe change areas? Acute seems to me to give the best chance for working contracted hours?

What would happen if you just... didn't do it?

You're a professional and presumably have been doing this for a few years and know your stuff and have a good reputation in your workplace.

My advice would be:

1. Speak to your manager about how you are working outside of your contracted hours to get your admin done.
2. Tell your manager you need to stop doing this because your life outside of work needs your time and attention.
3. Stop working outside of your contracted hours.

Yes, some things will slide. Some reports won't get done or will take longer.

But this is the only way to actually get managers to do something about the situation.

They're not exactly going to fire you - the process of getting rid of someone in the NHS is so slow that they simply won't be able to - and they won't want to let a reliable professional go anyway.

And in SLT, you are in a good position in that most of your patients are not in situations where their lives are at risk. Yes it's not great for patient care - but that's the fault of the NHS/ government, not you. You shouldn't have to work hours that you are not paid for. I certainly don't, I just refuse to, and if things pile up it's not my fault. I'm a good employee and well respected, but I simply don't work past my hours. I highly recommend it.

When I was in my professional career it was very normal to work over contracted hours and I did so for over thirty years, unpaid and no TOIL. In fact although core hours were mentioned, my contacts always stated that extra hours would be required at times. I was well paid though, on a six figure salary well over twenty years ago.

Now I am winding down, I work part time in a job paying a full time equivalent of around national average salary. I stick to my paid hours now.

I’m an OT, generally I’ve always worked a few hours extra each week but taken it back in TOIL.

More recently I have worked as a lecturer and did about 15 hours extra a week, moved into university support services now and do 5-10 hours extra a week (neither including the fact that I also usually don’t have a lunch break). I think it’s pretty standard in public services, services which are underfunded (so can’t employ more staff) combined with people who go into it because they’re passionate about supporting people. Ultimately the choice is people who need help miss out and are left vulnerable or I get up early a couple of times a week to catch up with admin. Extra hours is my preference.

you need to ask for more admin time to be allocated in your hours, not beyond

It's why I stopped working part time in the end - found I ended up working almost full time hours for part time pay

This hasn’t been my experience as an OT. I was told quite clearly in all the teams that I work in that I should not be working outside of my contracted hours. That, if the load is too much, I should say because it means they need extra staff and the management can build a case to commissioners for funding. I have one hour for appointment and the expectation is that I spend 45min with the patient and 15 min doing the notes. I also have admin slots throughout the week to finish longer bits of admin work (support letters for various agencies etc.)
I think you need to speak to the management about your hours and expectations but I wouldn’t take it as a given that you have to work extra on the regular basis. On occasion - fine, but not as a standard.

Circlesand makes a good point. To recruit more SLTs the manager needs to make a case that it is needed. If you all fill in the gaps by working additional hours for free you will always be short staffed.

I agree with those that say it's often (not always) the difference between a profession and a job.
I'm a Social Worker and everyone in my team works far over and beyond what they're paid to work.

What does your contract say? Mine states fixed hours and then hour outside of this to facilitate the role.

How senior are you, what is you pay, is it worth it?

I do work outside of my fixed hours but I’m an associate director in a fee earning role and my bonus is linked to my billing so for me, it’s all relative. If it doesn’t work for you, you need a rethink.

Easily work 15 hours a week over my 37.5 contracted hours. But, I work in finance, am reasonably paid and it’s just what is expected over past 20 years.

Whilst I find another job (due to also being expected to check work at weekends and days off) I am slowly trying to put more boundaries in place.

I think in general for any job, if it can’t be done in the hours required then your workload is too heavy. I’m not talking about the odd time when there’s something important to finish or an emergency, but on a day to day basis. You’re not a charity, you’re not working out of the goodness of your heart.

My job can’t be done in the hours (in fact I’m not sure 2 people could do it) and I’m just coming back after a period off stick because it finally broke me - first time off sick in 30 years. I am not going to do any more than my contracted hours from now on. If they want to get rid of me for this they’re welcome to try.

Sorry, I completely disagree with this, especially when it comes to lower paid professionals like allied health professionals and social workers.

I know that it happens, because the public sector is woefully underfunded.

But this is not a healthy way to think, that if you want a profession you have to work over your paid hours.

Just no. You don't have to. You only have to because this shitty government is not funding services properly, and relying on good will.

Stop giving so much good will, and those further up will have to listen.

I think a few extra hours are standard in a more professional role but as other mentioned these roles tend to lend themselves to other perks like better pay, more flexibility etc.

I try and minimise extra hours but do have to take quick calls on my days off usually for yes/no type of answers . In the scheme of things I can live with that.

I think I'd be bored in a more menial role even it meant I could do bang on my hours so there's the trade off too I suppose.

Except they won’t, and it will be patients who suffer. In theory you’re right but in salaried jobs where there is no option to pay people overtime or bank staff that’s just theoretical. The reality is patients end up (depending on your role) in dangerous positions because they’re not getting the support they need but the ‘higher ups’ don’t notice because they’re in their ivory towers counting beans.