AIBU - to not want to work outside my contracted hours

[Clove76]

Bit of background - I’m a Speech and Language Therapist, work 3 days a week and find I’m unable to do my job in the hours I’m paid for. There’s just so much admin on top of the appointments to get done each day that I can’t help but have to do that bit extra to keep up (just basic documentation and reports, I’m certainly not doing tasks above and beyond what’s expected).

I’ve worked for 3 organisations now (including government and private) and it’s the same scenario in each.

I know for a fact I’m not the only one who’s having to do more to ‘keep up’, as I had considered perhaps I’m the problem and just too slow.

Husband who has been my sounding board on this (and whether to stay in my profession) thinks most professional jobs require a bit of extra time to get things done. I don’t want to believe that’s true. So I pose the question - what do you do for a job and how frequently do you work outside the agreed hours? Am I being unreasonable to expect that some weeks I could just get away with doing my contracted hours?

I’m just so annoyed because I think I could love my job if I just felt the admin side of it was awarded as much time as it needs. As it stands I don’t think I can stay in this job much longer and am considering taking a much lower paid job that I can guarantee only requires me to work within the stated hours. I want to be more present for my kids and husband and not feel constant guilt that I haven’t done something.

I understand where you're coming from.

I'm a secondary school teacher in an essay based subject with all exam classes. I'm on a three day a week contract. I work at least 40 hours a week and if I were full time, it would be 60.

I get push back from colleagues for being part time sometimes even though 40 hours a week is not part time, is it?

For me it's worth it because I am guaranteed 2 days a week to do marking without staying up late to work, can do things for themselves and DD those days and it also reduces my tax bill. Plus as an experienced teacher but not management, I don't need to do a lot in school holidays.

I am well aware I am contributing to my own exploitation though. And I've knackered my career prospects but don't much care given the state of teaching. And pension can be a consideration but I am older and have other investments.

So I don't have an easy answer for you, but decide where your boundaries are personally and stick to them.

There would be absolutely no way I could get my job done without working contracted hours. It was so bad I moved to a different organisation and it’s better but still everyone works more.
I know quite a few people in this profession at different organisations and there’s only one who is only expected to work roughly contracted hours.

I should add that my current school are decent about overtime and gladly pay me if I lead a trip on my non work days. Which I do several times a year.

Yes so true - it’s not as simple stopping doing the extra. The RCSLT also recommends a timeframe I believe of 2 weeks to get a report done. I’ve actually left the NHS and now work for a private company but have found the caseload issue to generally be the same. I think I’m just coming to terms with the fact that there will always be an expectation to see minimum 4 patients a day and keep up with admin in my own time. If I’m having to ask for the extra time for admin then I’m probably just not suited to the role.

It’s interesting the variety of experiences of AHPs. I’ve met paeds OTs who, at the same banding as me at the time, worked just their hours and use to clock out at 5 on the dot every day, claimed they did not do extra at home. Such a different life!

where i am the ahp put in for admin, x hours for patients and x hours for admin
@Clove76

I'm a part time nurse (office based) and I'm usually about two weeks behind on my admin work. I still see patients regardless if admin is complete. If I get too behind then I work overtime and get TOIL. I wouldn't work over all the time because it is reflected in your annual leave entitlement and it is a sneaky way of them getting more hours out of you for less pay.

So lucky to get TOIL! Unheard of in roles I’ve been in. It’s good to hear your perspective having done some different roles and it seems doing extra is the norm in professional job roles..

I'm an academic. All my colleagues and I work well over our hours, evenings, weekends and holidays included. It is expected and normalised. And it sucks.

I work in a professional but low paying role and get TOIL for overtime worked. It is expected to work outside contracted hours. Those higher up than me work masses of overtime. Often until 10pm or later and weekends. They are not paid nor do they get TOIL however their wages reflect the extra work they are expected to do

I'm senior admin in a global company and sometimes it's needed to make deadlines. In this industry it's generally par for the course BUT its give and take. Not a permanent, regular thing.

I think that most professional jobs involve more than just the 9-5, and I’ve always thought it a bit odd that health professionals are so precious about their hours, having their mandated breaks etc etc. Doctors get diary monitoring to ensure they are not (officially) working too many hours. Not saying they don’t work hard, but it’s odd to treat it like a shift in a factory where you clock in and out.

I expect you could work more efficiently in reality. No one wants to read a really long report. Be realistic about what really needs to be included. Use dictation software which saves some standard texts or paragraphs which you can quickly insert into all your reports.

Shorter reports could be the way to go, but sometimes it's difficult to know what to leave out

I always assumed that it was stricter with medical professionals because if you're tired/burnt out/have been working hundreds of hours, you're more likely to make a mistake and the impact of that could be catastrophic. If I'm tired because I had to pull an all-nighter (which I have in the past) and fuck up, there's no real consequences other than looking like a bit of an idiot.

there will always be an expectation to see minimum 4 patients a day

4 patients a day is a very reasonable caseload and should leave plenty of time for admin, though. Or are you having to travel between patients?

i think 4 is too much
it should be 2 or 3 allowing time for admin surely

Specialist nurse here - rarely take my lunch break and rarely finish on time - my usual is to work an hour extra a day sometimes more. I’m not sure of how to stop this - I have seriously ill patients on my caseload - if I do my admin in my work time there will be knock on effects on who is seen. My day as it is, is a constant juggling act and trying to prioritise daily whose need is more. Its easy to say “just don’t do it” but then it’s me who has to ring a very sick person and say “no I don’t have capacity to see you today”

Also in public sector. Everyone I know works over their hours. Salaries between 32-55,000. Many don’t take all their AL.
One colleague has recently refused to continue. Problem is everyone else is now picking up their work and inevitably going forwards people won’t want them for new projects.
Lack of funding is the problem.

I'm a teacher. I do HOURS of work outside my job. It's generally acknowledged in teaching that if you work part-time, you're actually doing a day a week above what you're paid for. So if you get paid for 2 days a week, you do 3. I think in professional, salaried jobs, it's par for the course.

I think in professional, salaried jobs, it's par for the course.

but it shouldnt be
make a stand

Given how much demand there is, could you set yourself up independently and employ someone to do the admin or give yourself longer appointment slots so that each slot gives you time to see the person and do the paperwork?

I'd ask for a review with your manager to assist with time management. Are you peripatetic? If you're doing 4 hours of contact time a shift, ?+ travelling?, where is the admin time? This would be my starting point.

I think this is standard really in a professional job anyway still shut though. Its been going on so long and no one has challenged it

NHS ICU : if there is a crash call at the end of my shift I can’t just walk away plus I frequently spend time after a shift going over issues we’ve encountered. Also using Agency staff in our department is very expensive so I cover where ever I can.

It’s important that we do the absolute best we can for our patients and that can take you over time.

I think it is the case in a lot of professional jobs.

I am a secondary teacher and Head of Science. I work beyond my contracted hours. Otherwise, I'd never keep up/do my job well.

I teach a heavy timetable, so those lessons need planning/resourcing - we are centrally planned as a dept so we don't go from scratch but there is so much to think about in terms of how best to deliver for each class.

Then there is the marking/data/ordering supplies for the department/observing lessons/supporting parents/looking after my tutor group/making calls to parents about a whole raft of things/organising valuable extra opportunities for pupils such as careers week activities, Science week events and trips/planning and updating the curriculum/meetings and professional development sessions. I could go on. I also have several duties (paid on leadership scale so have to do them).

All the above said, I love what I do and the classroom teaching is still the part I love the most so I want to do a good job of that. When I am teaching, my whole focus is on the children- I don't check my emails etc in between (some teachers do though).

I used to but rarely anymore, if I think I will end up doing unpaid overtime I ask for more resources
Have you explained at work what is happening and mentioned that you are having to do this