Food orders for work related events are to be vegan and vegetarian only

[ValerieVomit]

We all received an email at work to say that when we order catering in future for work related events we can only order vegetarian and vegan food. The management team has imposed this. It's to reduce our carbon footprint. I don't think that this means there is to be no carnivorous food available for the rest of the organisation but our department won't allow us to order any.

Reasonable or not?

Snobbery about processed food has no place in an intellectual conversation.

Also 90% of Soy is grown and fed to... cows. So it's much better to just eat the soy.

@Elphame Complete bollocks. The vast majority of soy grown is grown for ANIMAL FEED.

I haven’t read the entire thread but I regularly order platters etc for work events and vegetarian and vegan food now costs a fair bit more than meat. So for a sandwich platter of meat it’s £30, vegetarian is £34 and vegan is £36.

Whats in the vegan and vegetarian that makes them more expensive!
Or is it that the meat offered is a bit crap?

Or is it that the meat offered is a bit crap?

Probably this ^^ and economies of scale.

IKR? The vegetarian is basically cheese and eggs and veg and the vegan is chickpeas and hummus and avo plus salad. The meat ones are lovely - and include roast chicken, beef etc.

It has been proved that grass contributed heavily to the ozone layer. Whereas annual crops cause both soil damage and contribute little. Removal of the plant matter at harvest is also a contributor to CO2 - the only difference is that it goes directly, rather than in the form of animal poo. It is a balanced argument - and I can see an incredible weight of information on both sides. Perhaps you need to read more before making such a sweeping statement.
Please read what the WWF are saying https://wwf.panda.org/discover/our_focus/food_practice/sustainable_production/soy "Soy production generates greenhouse gases that contribute to climate change. Tropical countries like Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay face emissions from deforestation and area conversion.
Soy is an intensively grown crop, with high demands for resources: particularly energy, water, agrochemicals and soil. Any change from natural vegetation or grazing lands to crops is likely to increase soil erosion and change the hydrological cycle"
WE are omnivorous - what will help our environment is eating seasonal local crops and as much raw as possible. I have seen the vegan option conference food, consisting of avocado, fake soy products and fancy pickled tomatoes, but lots of carbs (bad for our OP)
University of Herts study found "most vegan cheeses contain little or no calcium. They also often lack other important micronutrients found in dairy cheese, such as iodine, vitamin B12 and vitamin D. While the occasional slice of vegan cheese is unlikely to do any harm, relying on it as a replacement for dairy could have costs to your health."
Nutcellars tell us "Almonds require a lot of water to reach maturity. It takes a gallon (4.6 litres) of water to produce each and every almond. Almond production can also be disruptive to ecosystems and have a severe strain on bee populations. Bees may be harmed or killed during cross-country transportation for intense pollination practices, which can also lead to spreading diseases and illnesses to other colonies." and while they are potentially lower than meat - there are no by-products, grass is removed, trees take many year to mature to pay their way and we need far more nuts to produce "milk".
It is a bandwagon that people are jumping on without really considering the whole story.

What we need to be doing is simply eating less.

"Grass contributed heavily to the ozone layer"?! I'm not even sure where to start with that one.

And as pp have pointed out, a great way to reduce soya's environmental impact is for people globally to eat less meat. Even if they eat some soya protein rather than meat then a lot less soya needs to be grown.

WWF will agree with me: Soy production generates greenhouse gases that contribute to climate change. Tropical countries like Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay face emissions from deforestation and area conversion. And the damage caused by almonds production is almost as bad.

But looking at the simple growing in isolation does not factor in the manufacturing costs, our centuries old balanced ecosystem, nor our omnivorous nature, the short term effects of vegan diets are showing, with predictions for longer term being somewhat negative.
Veganism planet wide is an ill thought out fad

WWF specifically says that nearly 80% of soy production is fed to animals. Soya-led deforestation is driven by a global increase in meat eating.

But we would need a lot less soy if it wasn't fed to farmed animals... that's part of the reason that being vegan is better for the environment.

And most of soya from South America is fed to pigs and chickens, or used as vegetable oil in (mostly non vegan) processed foods.

Alpro sources all soya they use from Europe.

Those protesting about soy being grown should stop eating animals, as most of it is produced for that purpose. Stop eating animals = vastly less soy production required.

Livestock farming is so bad for the environment as a whole - land use, water use, greenhouse gases, conversion of land to grow crops to feed animals.... waste products, toxic chemicals. Nasty business.

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/vegan-diet-climate-meat-vegetarian-pescatarian#:~:text=The%20analysis%20found%20that%20plant,of%20a%20deck%20of%20cards.

Vegan Diets Have One-Fourth the Climate Impact of Meat-Heavy Diets, Study Finds

"Plant-based diets produce 75 percent less heat-trapping gas, generate 75 percent less water pollution, and use 75 percent less land than meat-rich diets — those that include at least 100 grams of meat daily, the equivalent of one steak around the size of a deck of cards."

The absolute hoops people will jump to to fight for their right for a cheap ham sandwich.

Aside from the bone headedness on where the vast majority of soy is actually being consumed (not humans) the holier than thou-ing on vegan food being ultra processed as if your bog standard ham sandwich, sausage roll or coronation chicken roll aren’t also the pinnacle of UPF would be hilarious if it wasn’t so depressing.

Sausage meat and ham are quite literally the bits scraped from the machines and reformed with oil, salt and bread crumbs.
Chickens are caged and force fed growth hormones to produce unnatural amounts of breast meat in record time, killed, boiled, chopped and again mixed with oils, salts and other ingredients to be palatable rubber.

Unless the virtue signalling gone mad crowd are hand raising their own meat using locally grown feed and killing and preserving the meat, they have not a salted leg to stand on calling vegan food ultra processed, carbon heavy and unhealthy. And I’m not even a vegan.

It is true that lots of vegan food is ultra processed (and expensive). It doesn't need to be that way though. There are traditions of vegan dishes from different parts of the world. My favourite would be rice and daal with chapatis or naan bread and subji/subzi.

Daal (also spelled dhal or dahl) is probably the cheapest high-protein dish anywhere. It is made with lentils or other pulses and is spicy. Much cheaper than animal protein. Rice is one of the cheapest sources of calories, as are Indian flatbreads like chapatis or naans. Subji or subzi is an Indian way of preparing vegetables.

I heard on radio last night someone saying that you can't expect people to eat healthily when sausage rolls are £1 for four. You can buy a kilo of rice for half that though.

Rice and lentils are imported. But then so is the grain and pulses (eg maize and soya) that feed British chicken and pork. So it's a question of do we import grains and pulses and eat them ourselves or do we import them and feed them to chickens, pigs and cattle and eat them.

Yes it's a complete myth that vegan food has to be a) expensive or b) UPF. Eating vegan can be the cheapest diet there is, as well as the healthiest. You just need to cook for yourself, from scratch. Dahl, lentils, beans, veg etc. Yes some beans etc come from across the world but the carbon and environmental footprint vs meat production is massively hugely reduced even with the food transport.

Yes it's a complete myth that vegan food has to be a) expensive or b) UPF.

It goes to show just how much ignorance there is about vegan food and also how many people eat such a limited range of dishes and unadventurous foods. They seem unable to think outside of the box of meat and two veg. (Allergies and intolerances excepted).

I eat a carnivorous diet, but eats loads of vegetarian and vegan meals because I like the sound of them. I have made loads of recipes from The Roasting Tin series of books, and most of them are vegetarian witha few vegan recipes among them. They have all been delicious.

Or choose to eat animals that don't eat soy. Wild meat doesn't eat soy. Many organic farmers use little or no soy.

@AsTheyPulledYouOutOfTheOxygenTent
Two thirds of UK farmland is pasture, much of which is not suitable for other forms of food production but ruminants thrive on it. (https://agricology.co.uk/ )
"Livestock grazing is not only beneficial to the animals and the farmers, but also to the planet. The grasses and other plants that make up the pasture are able to absorb more carbon dioxide from the atmosphere than they would if they were left alone, and this can help to offset some of the greenhouse gases that contribute to climate change. In addition, grazing animals help to aerate and fertilize the soil, which can improve its ability to support plant life. Overall, livestock grazing is a win-win for everyone involved." (https://vhive.buzz/)
https://www.pastureforlife.org/why-pasture/better-for-our-environment/

https://www.chelseagreen.com/2022/5-environmental-benefits-of-regenerative-grazing/
but then of course, you know better

We wouldn’t need so much soya if it wasn’t being used to feed animals. Human consumption is tiny in comparison.

Don’t forget cows farts too!

Meat farming and consumption is an environmental disaster.

But don’t you know everyone eats beef reared 5min from home, fed on non- fertilised grass only and each cow walks itself to the abbatoir willingly and has arranged for someone to pick up its body in a wooden hand made handcart to be taken to the very local butchers (ideally one that’s been in the same family for 85 generations) to be sold exclusively to the local villagers only.

well that’s what all the numpty vegan haters go out of their way to write on vegan web pages.

Yes most of the soy grown in areas subject to deforestation goes to feed animals as it’s often lower quality.

👏👏👏