To be considering taking Year 7 daughter out of school even though she says she doesn’t want to?

[Confusedallthetime0]

I’m really confused so please be gentle as I’m really trying to do the best my my daughter here and I don’t know what that is right now.
She is ASD ( only diagnosed last year ) and has always been quite serious however for the last year or so, she seems completely overwhelmed with the whole aspect of secondary school life and socialising etc.
She just seems miserable the entire time, despite biting my head off every time I try to have a conversation with her.
She literally doesn’t speak to me at all from the minute she wakes up to the minute she goes to bed apart from asking for dinner.
Everything I say is annoying / irritating and it’s very hard to tell what is normal grumpiness going through puberty etc and what is burnout?
She says she is not leaving school and being different but equally refuses to attend at times for various reasons linking mainly to anxiety.
It can’t be right for a 12 year old to be so utterly exhausted and moody the entire time surely? 😢

What’s your proposal if you take her out? Are you going to home educate or transfer?

Girls at that age are well known to be hormonal and moody, and friendships are really important.

What support does she have?

One friend at school but she’s too drained to see her outside school
She needs the entire weekend to even be able to have any type of conversation with me
Saturday she seems to want to just rest, hibernate really and Sunday she may do something with me if it means she will get new clothes etc but otherwise she has no interest in anything really 😢

I suggested online schooling as the social side of school is the biggest issue for her - academically she’s very able

No I wouldn't take her out if she doesn't want to come out of school.

I say that having home educated 2 autistic teens who couldn't manage in school.

Have a conversation with Head of Year/SENDCO. They will be able to suggest accommodations such as supported break times and breakfast club to ease her into the day etc. There is always more help and support on offer in school but you have to ask for it, otherwise everyone will take advantage of it.

DS1 is 11 and doesn’t really do much outside of school because his ASD/ADHD means he’s exhausted. School is about his limit.

Has she been examined by a Doctor, maybe for ME or similar?

this is puberty. some girls are just completely exhausted due to the effects of hormones and she is in transition. if you have spoken to her and asked her if she wants to come out of school and she has said no then please respect that. unless you are prepared to put in a lot of time and effort home education is a failure. And yes, I am anti home ed for the same reason I am against people pretending to be doctors, vets or any other profession that requires formal degree qualifications and training. If you take her out now against her will what effect do you think that will have on your relationship?

I wouldn't take her out unless she's being bullied. She doesn't want to. Isolating her because she struggles with her autism won't help her. I think you need to have meetings with school to find out how they can better support her in school.

Thank you for your reply.
Does your son seem happy though in his world of school and home?
My DD seems quite depressed / stressed all the time which is why I’m so concerned.
Many many meetings had with school and they are doing all the can but she refuses any support in school in fear of looking different to everyone else.
She will not accept she needs things that are different to others sometimes 😢

Yes but the only thing that flagged was a Vit D deficiency which she is on supplements for

Why do people say “she is ASD” rather than “she has ASD”?

I respect that and I would never just randomly think of home schooling - it is purely because she seems so miserable.
I have other children very happy in school.
I think she would feel less pressure so in that way I would hope it would help our relationship but in another breath I think she will just hate me more.

Because ASD is considered part and parcel of a person rather than a diagnosis separate to that person.

It's just a massive jump to remove school from the equation. Especially if she has said she wants to go to school.

Better, as others have suggested, to work with school to try to make things easier for her.

If she doesn't want to come out of school she's very unlikely to be happy at home all day. It can be quite isolating to do that unless you are sure that she needs to for her mental health or are sure that she will engage in education away from home or sure that she will engage with peers away from school.

That's not to mention the strain it can put on your relationship to try to educate at home, it's not easy. If she wants to take formal exams you will be responsible for sourcing and paying for them.

DS1 is very laid back on the whole. He lets a lot of stuff wash over him. He also has quite a sunny temperament.

I’ve read about (and have first hand experience of!!) links between ASD and PMDD in girls; this might be worth investigating?

She sounds like a completely normal secondary school kid going through puberty. Talking about taking her out of school for a bit of perfectly normal pubescent moodiness is way, way over the top. If every child who behaved like that in their early teens got taken out of school, there'd be about four kids left in each class.

But people with it aren’t a disorder. It should be “she is autistic”.

I think it’s a tough age for girls. Periods or starting them in next couple of years so hormones are bouncing. Getting used to high school and differences then diagnosis that tells them they are different. I’d give her time and love and lots of support. Perhaps some planned time at the weekend to sit and watch a movie

I have an 11 year old in Y6 who is NT and has no diagnosis of anything, and I would say that she quite often doesn't speak to me much for an entire day because she's in such a mood and would rather hibernate in her room or in the tv room. I think you just need to give her time and space to recover outside of school and support her as much as she will let you.

Few questions from me (I also have a DD who is 12 / Year 7 and has ASD)

Has she had any post diagnostic therapy?
Does she receive support from the school (and do you for that matter?) So do you have regular meetings / a pupil plan / Early Help Plan etc. Does she have a key worker she can check in with.
Does she have any ongoing support from CAMHS following her ASD diagnosis?
Does she she the school nurse?

My DD is anxious and struggles with school. She also has ADHD and that can make things difficult when it 'clashes' with the ASD. We have had / have all the above in place and I feel that at least it makes me feel that ongoing support is there to keep us on track as much as possible.

I have a different relationship with DD to you in so much that she talks to me a lot. It's difficult, because either way it can be unhealthy and I think they often need expert guidance and counselling.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't pull her out of school. I've had the same thoughts, but DD doesn't want me to as she has one really good friend there who is worth staying for.

We've also moved classes recently as I found out there was some low level but persistent bullying going on.

Look at social groups for girls with asd perhaps.

Sounds exactly what my dd was like all the way through high school, she never really socialised outside school and would spend most weekends in her room, I would have to to argue with her to get her to leave the house. Dd didn’t really have friends until her last year at 6 form. I never considered pulling her out, she liked the routine of school and the work but just found socialising exhausting. My dd is now in her 2nd year of uni, has lots of friends (mostly with ASD or ADHD), has a social life but still spends most weekends in bed recovering from the week before. Teenagers can be really grumpy, add ASD into the picture just makes it slightly worse,I think we probably worry too much as it’s hard to know what’s normal teen behaviour and what ASD behaviour.

She sounds like me at this age. I didn't leave the house with my parents for 4 years or do anything with them. I thought they were SO ANNOYING and ridiculous. I'm also ASD so it probably amplified.

I emerged and we were close again. It must have made them very sad at the time I guess.

I also missed lots of school, my mum just made sure I kept up with home study and I got straight As so that at least was OK. I have a job these days where I work sometimes from home when I get overwhelmed.

From the perspective of an ASD person, with ASD kids of my own, the worst thing you can do is do something 'to' us without our consent. I don't know your daughter's rationale for wanting to stay in school (if my parents had offered to take me out I'd have jumped at the offer and maybe even thought they were less pathetic) but whatever her reasons, if that's what she wants I guess you need to go with it

I have other children happy in school

I'm glad your other kids appear to be happy, but honestly, different kids just have different personalities and different moods. The fact that you have one kid who seems stressed and snappy doesn't necessarily mean that school is the issue. She's 12 and some kids are quite simply very angsty at that age, regardless of their school situation.

You've said yourself that she 'doesn't want to be different' but maybe you're inadvertently making her feel more different with talk of pulling her out of school and suggesting that her moodiness must mean she's not coping, and that's actually contributing to her anxiety/stress?

I think it's easy to attribute her behaviour to school because that's a very obvious thing that's changed in her life recently, but she's going through a billion and one other, less tangible changes at the moment too including puberty and an ASD diagnosis. It's all a big adjustment.

Apologies, I've seen that she's refused any support as she doesn't want to appear different. My DD has also resisted for this reason. It was helpful that she was put in a class with other ND kids so she doesn't feel she sticks out as much. She will not, however, accept time out cards or suchlike as she thinks they make her stand out even more, so she just powers through.

I'm looking at some specialised support locally to me and have found a psychotherapist who specialises in Autsim Acceptance. DD is highly unlikely to attend, so it will be parent led very likely.

The Kooth app is also very good, but I appreciate that you're struggling to get her to engage. It definitely seems ro me that she can't/ won't accept her diagnosis and of course this plays out as her taking it out on you.

Then say 'she is autistic'.

ASD stands for 'autism spectrum disorder'. Saying 'she is autism spectrum disorder' isn't saying ASD is part of who she is, it's saying that ASD is all she is. It is literally saying 'she is a disorder'. It's like saying 'she is asthma' or 'she is depression' or 'she is Parkinson's'.

My own neurodivergence is correctly know as either dyspraxia or DCD (development coordination disorder). I personally choose to describe myself by saying 'I am dyspraxic'. Sometimes people describe me as 'having dyspraxia' which is perfectly OK. Occasionally people describe me as 'having DCD', which I actually hate, but is still perfectly polite and reasonable because it's accurate.

However, if someone was talking about me and said 'She is DCD' I'd be fucking livid and I would tell them so.