To be considering taking Year 7 daughter out of school even though she says she doesn’t want to?

[Confusedallthetime0]

I’m really confused so please be gentle as I’m really trying to do the best my my daughter here and I don’t know what that is right now.
She is ASD ( only diagnosed last year ) and has always been quite serious however for the last year or so, she seems completely overwhelmed with the whole aspect of secondary school life and socialising etc.
She just seems miserable the entire time, despite biting my head off every time I try to have a conversation with her.
She literally doesn’t speak to me at all from the minute she wakes up to the minute she goes to bed apart from asking for dinner.
Everything I say is annoying / irritating and it’s very hard to tell what is normal grumpiness going through puberty etc and what is burnout?
She says she is not leaving school and being different but equally refuses to attend at times for various reasons linking mainly to anxiety.
It can’t be right for a 12 year old to be so utterly exhausted and moody the entire time surely? 😢

If she won’t talk to you normally then she’s unlikely to allow you to be a part of her online learning. (I mean you couldn’t ask her if she wanted some help or a tutor for a subject because of her grades as that requires listening and communication) As she wants to stay at school, it sounds possible that she’d not do any online study in protest and might not cooperate with a return to school (especially if it’s not the original one)

I think it’s very common for teens to not want to stand out. I have a child with ADHD and he didn’t accept it never mind say the word ADHD until he was much older than 12. This means that he lost a few years of help but teens/preteens are stubborn and need to learn through experiences like that.

If she doesn’t want to leave, let her stay and ride it out. My 12 year old finds secondary far more exhausting than her peers as she has some additional needs that aren’t being met at school. Fortunately she’s a talker, so will talk to me about everything. But she hates school.

I really recommend the "I'm an autism expert AMA" post in Classics. It's a fantastic resource and I believe the OP of that thread is still answering questions. I'm autistic myself and secondary school was exactly like that for me. Stress, illness, recovery, repeat. Sending lots of love. Please reassure your daughter that it DOES get better.

Thanks for all the replies.
I will read through and reply shortly

This was pretty much me at 12 - definitely didn't want to talk to my folks and spent most of my time in my room - so sounds pretty normal!

If she seemed genuinely happy but just didn’t want to talk to me or was chatting away to friends etc that would be very different but sitting in a room all the time and being so angry / annoyed by everything in the house surely is a sign she’s being quote out at school

If she doesn’t want to leave then she shouldn’t leave.

I’ve been through similar with DD. She didn’t attend lessons for 2 years, just going to a support room or with a 1:1 wouldn’t go to break or lunch. She hasn’t done a full day for over 2 years.
Now she goes to some lessons, it’s a struggle but she’s much happier. Now enjoying lunch and breaktime and has a nice group of friends.
It’s a slow process and I constantly need to be onto school to make adjustments.

School should be making some adjustments if she’s not coping well. I offered to take DD out as well but o know she would have done no work and would have withdrawn completely. I’d ask to see the SENCO.

I get what you're saying, and for sure there are elements of this that are normal for pre-teens, but what OP is describing is the quintessential autistic teen's high school experience: constant exhaustion and needing to "recover" from the most basic interactions and expectations, i.e. socialising and coping at school. That's on top of hormones and the natural urge to become more independent from ones' parents.

It sounds like autistic burnout/overwhelm after masking all day at school.
she is prob overstimulated and emotionally dysregulated when she gets home. It seems like on Saturday when she does “nothing” she’s started to regulate enough to be able to communicate/engage with you on a Sunday.
you trying to communicate with her may seem like another demand.
try to keep demands low after school. She probably is angry/ miserable but needs to just be how she is in order to regulate for the next day.
maybe on a Sunday ask what helps her to feel better. Is there anything that could help. This could be watching her favourite tv after school, sitting in a Dark room with relaxing music, playing computer games, sitting under her duvet/weighted blanket.
does she understand what autism is and how it might make being at school so hard she’s exhausted when she gets home. She may not want to talk about it but you could just keep it brief and casual “you have to work so much harder just to be at school, when uou come home you may feel exhausted is there anything we can do to help you to feel comfortable, home should be your safe space” (but also hopefully home is her safe space meaning she can be angry/overwhelmed and just be herself - even if this seems sad/upsetting to you).
or it’s ok to feel overwhelmed when you come home shall we try some calming strategies to help you relax at home?
for example.
im sure there are some good books for autistic teen girls which may help.
(I have an autistic teen boy who doesn’t communicate loads after school but just plays his games, jumps on his trampette and watches his fave tv shows and we let him just get on with it as it’s too much to interact with us usually Sunday is more of a family day but he communicates more generally now he is older and we’ve supported him to figure out what he needs to re-regulate)
the house may just be too overstimulating for her when she gets home. If there is too much stuff/noise/clutter/light/whatever.
It may seem uncomfortable for you as it isn’t “normal” (I get it - I’ve been there) but if she wants to be at school, gently try to support her (which I know you are doing).

I can’t remember what it’s called but there’s a strategy of mirroring the person when you are with them which has helped me a lot to strengthen the relationship with my son. So if they are sat in a room on the sofa - you just do the same no words/verbal communication. If they do something you do the same (this may be linked more to younger children) so with my child I just sit with him and watch his tv shows (if he lets me) or watch him play a game. And he loves sharing his interests with me in this way and will sometimes start a conversation about the show. (Sometimes I have to pretend to be interested 😂) I think it’s a really nice way to bond but demand free - it’s all child led.

xx

The only way forcibly withdrawing your daughter to EHE her could 'improve' your relationship with her when she doesn't want to leave is if you manage to engender a level of Stockholm syndrome in her.

At the moment, whilst it may be hard for you to hear, she gets to spend around 40 hours a week away from you, with access to daylight, conversation, stimulation and movement. Stick her indoors with you 24 hours a day against her will and she won't just be hiding away at the weekend, she'll be hiding all the time or growing to resemble a polar bear in a concrete enclosure.

NB This doesn't apply to other children who would thrive in the EHE or EOTAS environment, it applies to yours - because it's sounding like it's for your emotional benefit to 'make her like you more', rather than because it's something she needs.

She isn't ASD, she has ASD .
Is doesn't define her.

She sounds like a younger me tbh. I had depression and severe anxiety, couldn't sleep due to constant worrying so was always tired, and because I was so tired I couldn't concentrate in lessons so would fall behind, and then started skipping lessons so the teachers couldn't see I was struggling as I was so embarrassed.
No actual advice other than to say you should listen to her about her schooling, if she doesn't want to leave then don't force her

Autistic people (people with autism) differ on which way of expressing this is preferable. I don't think your post is very helpful.

I am in a very similar situation with my child (asd, same age, refuses all help, moody/sad/angry 99% of time)

Can I ask, is your daughter happier during school holidays?

Sometimes I wonder if it's school making my daughter depressed and angry all the time, but she is actually worse in the holidays.

I think having no routine or no place she has to be actually makes her more depressed.

I definitely wouldn't remove my kid from school through if she doesn't want to. She probably wants to fit in and that would do the opposite.

Also reading about ASD and adolescence reassured us that what we are going through is pretty normal, as distressing as it is.

It's exhausting too as you're only ever as happy as your kid aren't you...

It’s hard to describe her as “ happy “ anytime to be honest as she can be happy for a very short space of time and something can come along and change that very rapidly.

She isn’t exhausted in the holidays so possibly less snappy with me I guess but her special interests are only skincare and cats so it’s hard to fill the time with those subjects alone as she refuses most things I offer that we could do together and she won’t eat in restaurants / around anyone at all so even a family takeaway ends up with her aloe in her room again watching skincare TokTok videos 😢

how

Agree with you but actually ASD is the incorrect term in itself. Autism is not a disorder. So really should say she is autistic.

Came on to say this , really strange. I'm ADHD myself , possibly have ASD and never say it.

Hey OP,
Sorry to hear your daughter is feeling so low. Honestly, I really don't think Mumsnet is the best source of advice for you with this. I would seek information and guidance from those with specialist understanding of autism. As she is shutting down communication it must be hard to understand what's really going on for her and therefore the best course of action. A therapist or counsellor who is ND-informed might be able to help with this.

I have a sense that there is a core issue of knowing she is 'different' but constantly trying to mask it because she sees difference as a categorically bad thing. So I'd be looking for opportunities to shift this mindset and grow self-worth and pride in her individuality. Advocates for the autistic community who have podcasts/vlogs? ND people working in skincare or with cats who she could look towards as positive role models?!

It could be worth finding home education networks in your area who will be able to point you towards alternative learning communities. Often these run 3 days a week and offer the social connection and shared learning opportunities that people worry about missing when leaving school. Maybe visiting something like this with your daughter would open her eyes to another possibility, rather than feeling trapped in a conventional secondary. These huge settings are overwhelming for the senses and the social norms can emotionally trash people who don't 'fit in'. In a different kind of educational community they can regulate their nervous systems, be celebrated in their uniqueness and positively thrive.

You could also check out Not Fine in School and Square Peg

Unless you are worried she is in immediate danger, I would try to work out a way of making this decision together rather than unilaterally. That might involve taking it slow and gently gently, because it sounds like she is in rigid shutdown mode, which is a survival mechanism. Feeling safe enough to see you as her ally and let you through the castle gates is a big deal (and even if she wants to rationally, her subconscious will call the shots). That doesn't mean no boundaries from you, but I think the ability to stay calm, patient, compassionate and firm is important. If you can get some support to resource yourself then you will be best able to co-regulate her nervous system with yours.

Hope that helps. Wishing you luck and strength in navigating this with your daughter x