To have advised friend to not mention affair?

[Aintbaint]

Truthfully I don’t actually know which is the ‘right’ way - friends group is 50/50 on this…

Friend has been married 20 + years, 3 children - 3, 6, 13. DH came home and announced he’s met his soulmate and wants to be with her so wants to sell house and divorce. It’s come out of the blue, has known this woman about 6 months through work.
He’s a services type role so away a lot, but that has also meant friend has been a SAHM for 13 years.
Shes screwed, no job, no income, no savings and no pension. Plus the youngest are still very young. The DH wants to buy a place with the new woman.

It’s all a big shock and clearly going to have a massive impact on the kids. She asked what she should tell them… is it ‘ sometimes adults have to separate but we both love you very much blah blah blah’ or is it ‘daddy is a fuckwit who’s choosing his new girlfriend over his kids and family’

I mean WHAT do you say under these circumstances?

YANBU - for the sake of the kids make it sound mutual and disguise the fact daddy’s thinking with his penis.

YABU - tell the older kids dad’s got a girlfriend, they’ll soon find out anyway? Let them know how he’s destroying the family unit. It’s not mum’s fault.

It's super hard on her but I think she needs to
protect the kids from this stuff. It'll only be so confusing and hurtful for them. They may well realise if he's pathetic enough to introduce the new woman any time soon but you'd hope not. So sorry for your friend Op.

Don't badmouth dad however much you may want to.
Because it's not the best thing for the children
You don't have to word it so it's a mutual decision if it isn't a mutual decision.
But just doing say anything bad about dad

Don't say anything bad about dad but telling the truth is imperative.

The ideas the children form now will remain with them. Supposing, later on, the children find out that the split wasn't actually mutual at all?! They may well feel they were told a lie by a person they trusted to always tell the truth.

It's not in their interest for her to tell the children 'the truth' or badmouth the father. They'll find out the truth one day when they're older and they can do what they like with it then. Her job is to protect the children, divorce is enough turmoil as it is. Why anyone would want to inflict more hurt on them, I don't know.

I’m sure there’s a middle ground. If he’s moving straight in with another woman it will be pretty obvious for the eldest at least. Does she need to give a reason? Kids tend to just need facts ‘Daddy is going to be living somewhere else.’ I wouldn’t lie for him but it doesn’t need to be so ‘your father has been screwing around’.

Don’t badmouth the ex. Even if it is very deserved. Kids realise as time passes and are grateful they were not made to despise selfish parent but got the measure of them without assistance from angry parent.

I think that they both can tell politely and factual that they are not in love any more and decided to separate.
But I absolutely can understand what words she wants to use…

It doesn’t have to be a complete lie of a mutual separation or utter badmouthing.

It was as simple for me as ‘Daddy loves you lots, but he isn’t going to live here any more because he wants to live with another lady. You will still see him on weekends but we won’t be living all together any more.’

Factual.

I was about 6 or so when this happened to my family unit.

It would have been even more of shit sandwich for my mother to have pretended that this was a mutual split.

Or an even more neutral- ‘daddy won’t be living here any more’ with no other ladies mentioned.

They’ll work it out in a year or so.

I think that's a perfect explanation to be fair. Factual but without being too bitter or badmouthing.

You will need to explain the woman living with their dad. Truth isn't bad mouthing. There's always an age appropriate and truthful way of explaining what's happening.

I had to do it when ex moved straight in with ow. There was no bad mouthing or bitterness but when daddy is sharing a bed when the kids stay over you have to explain.

‘It's not in their interest for her to tell the children 'the truth' or badmouth the father.’

and when the oldest is going ‘but why?’ I’m wondering how she avoids it?

What do you mean?
When the eldest asks why? That doesn't mean that you have to badmouth the father does it?
I mean even say the dad thought the relationship wasn't working or he didn't think he loved me anymore. The oldest will understand this let's face it. my point being you don't have to badmouth the person do you
Or even avoid the truth.
Truth doesn't equal bad-mouthing them

Factual info: their father has started another relationship. Don’t think lying helps matters.

Speaking from experience a 13 year old is old enough to be told that their father has found a new partner and is moving out to live with them. I'm not suggesting that your friend bad mouths their father but at the same time it is important that the children are told the age appropriate truth and "we grew apart" is not the truth. My folks tried that and all it meant was that I was equally angry at both of them and was left with no "safe" parent to turn to. (They also got back together but that's another story...)

She just says “Dad and I have decided to separate. We both love you all very much. We aren’t sure of all the details of where we will be moving and when you will see us yet, but we are working on that and everything else necessary to make this as smooth as possible.”

Definitely no badmouthing the other parent or woman and it’s time for your friend to go and see a solicitor.

It's obvious isn't it

Daddy loves you all very much but he doesn't love mummy any more. Why shouldn't it be clear that he's responsible? There doesn't have to be bad mouthing for there to be truth.

The kids will likely find the whole situation extremely stressful if they don't know where they'll be living. I think she needs to see if there is a way for her to stay in the house with the children, she needs to see a solicitor and they won't allow her to be left homeless and penniless with 3 kids to look after.

This one. Telling a truth that the children are going to find out sooner rather than later isn't "badmouthing" their feckless father. It is the truth and pretty bland.

And if he has an issue with that, he shouldn't have cheated, should he?

I wouldn't badmouth him but I would be factually accurate. Daddy is going to live with another lady but you will still see him and we both still love you.

It’s ok to share facts when the children are at an age to understand those facts, it’s just about how it’s delivered. Any attempts (whether sub conscious or not) to paint him as the bad guy or any strong emotion could damage the relationship between your friend and her children. For example if she’s overly emotional they might feel there’s no space for their emotions and they might grow up feeling they have to tiptoe around her when it comes to their dad. Or if she’s very anti dad they might feel defensive of him and that their loyalty is split. I’d therefore only support sharing information if your friend is confident she’s in the best space to share it. Ultimately whenever they find out they will be able to form their own conclusions about the true character of their father, although it’s likely to take a while, so she can be safe in the knowledge that they’ll know she has been wronged and their father is of questionable character.

For example if she’s overly emotional they might feel there’s no space for their emotions and they might grow up feeling they have to tiptoe around her when it comes to their dad.

This is absolutely true @Nicole1111 I've seen it happen. The kids are scared to approach their mum about anything they want to say or do with their dad because they are so aware of her reaction even 7/8 years down the line.

I am firmly on the side of truth, even when it's hard.

It needs to be age-appropriate - so different conversations may be had with each child.

Not all information needs to be given immediately.

If this arsehole has a shred of respect for his DC, he will sit down with his wife & tell his kids with her; explain that he's leaving & where he's living.

He doesn't have to say that moment about the new woman, but should shortly after.

As for the wife, it's also ok to let the DC know how sad she is, that it's tough but they will be ok.

The silly idea that women are supposed to pretend it's all fine invalidates children's feelings.

It's not fine. It's deeply painful for them & for their mother. It's ok to acknowledge this while reassuring them.

What happens with his relationship with his DC is up to him. If he is honest and present with them, it will make a huge difference, and they'll be capable of having a relationship with him, regardless of the affair / OW.

My ex lied & let down our DC over years. Two of them have no interest whatsoever in a relationship with him. The other tries a little but fundamentally has limited contact.

I was always honest from day 1 - he was abusive, I didn't speak about that but I was clear happy his inability to be a parent & in a marriage and I'd no qualms about making that clear.

Of course they need to be told the truth as they will find out anyway. Lying never brings anything but resentment from children.

It does need to be presented in a factual, non emotional way. "Daddy has met someone and decided to live with them".

How difficult for your friend.

It's absolutely wild to me that it's considered "badmouthing" to tell the truth. I mean, obviously you do it in an age-appropriate way and without dumping all your emotions all over it. But nobody is serving their children by lying to them.

Kids are going to ask why, and I make it an absolute rule to NEVER lie to my kids. They have all known from a very young age that if they ask me a question, they will receive a truthful answer. Again, age-appropriate.

I would say something like "Daddy has decided he wants to live with another woman." Assuming that he is a decent dad, I would reassure them that he still loves them unconditionally and would bring the conversation back around to that each time. The younger ones may well be struggling with feelings of abandonment and if their dad is a loving father, they need to be reassured of that. Obviously if he's a total deadbeat who can't be arsed with them it's wrong to tell them that he really loves them etc because that just gives them a very warped idea of what love is.