Tenants accepting (overdue) safety certificates- how to proceed

[DoubleShotEspresso]

Hello,

Posting here as I cannot find another relevant category and figured traffic here may be better.

We are tenants, were provided all required safety certificates when we moved in, but these expired some (years) ago. Managing agent hurriedly arranged new inspections at the time we were being issued new contract (rent increase) and out property failed on both gas and electricity.

Recommended works were completed, but only some time after we signed a new tenancy agreement. We suspect the intention was perhaps to facilitate the possible use of a section 21 at some point in the next year but understand this is now not possible due to late issue of gas safety certificate. (After our new tenancy agreement was issued and signed).

So my questions here please:

-Is our landlord in breach for us not having had checks done for some years? If yes, what consequences could they face?
-Should we sign for an electrical certificate issued prior to signing new tenancy agreement even though the works are only being completed now? Can we/should we refuse?
-Can tenants seek compensation in situations such as this? (No intent here but interested to know the gravity here as being made to feel crazy whenever I raise a question on this)
-What consequences exist for landlords who fail to hold current gas safety certificates mid tenancy?

N.B No desire on my part for any conflict or at all to leave our home, but we do have some very real concerns as to the safety here but have no clue how to judge this.
Would be very pleased to hear from anyone kind enough to share some qualified wisdom! Thanks for reading.

Contact shelter, they will give you the best legal advise

Contact your council as well. They have powers of enforcement and will come and do a full inspection under the housing health and safety rating system and enforce any necessary repairs.

Yes thanks, I do understand this is possible but was really hoping to deal with this amicably and not risk evictions or further rent increases. So really hoped anybody with a bit of knowledge on this stuff could kindly point me in the right direction.

Do you have copies of the certificates? I think it is the landlord responsibility to issue these and shocking that management company isn't doing it. Is the landlord aware that agent isn't doing their job? My experience is that management companies are frequently rubbish and try to avoid doing anything wherever possible. It should be clear from the dates on the certificates if there is a gap so even if you sign something this evidence will prove what actually happened. I imagine it would invalidate landlord insurance if it isn't up to date and could maybe lose registration (if your council does one) if this happened repeatedly or there was a safety issue. Otherwise doubt there is any real consequences they would face. I would follow up every year at the required time for gas safety and every 3 years for electrical to request that they are done. Safety wise I don't think many people who own their own houses get these checks done that often if at all so I don't think there is anything to worry about. As a landlord I always get them done on time but have a scatty friend who is always a bit late with it for her flat and she has never faced any consequences

Just to clarify. The certificates are now issued and all the work is completed?

-Is our landlord in breach for us not having had checks done for some years? If yes, what consequences could they face? Google answer - Being unable to provide a gas safety record is a criminal offence and landlords can be liable for unlimited fines and/or six months of imprisonment.

-Should we sign for an electrical certificate issued prior to signing new tenancy agreement even though the works are only being completed now? Can we/should we refuse? What do you mean sign for it? A safety certificate is issued by a electrician? Not you?

-Can tenants seek compensation in situations such as this? (No intent here but interested to know the gravity here as being made to feel crazy whenever I raise a question on this) - no intent?

-What consequences exist for landlords who fail to hold current gas safety certificates mid tenancy? See above

Nothing will prevent eviction or rent increase if the landlord wants you out or wants to raise the rent. They can do so, its their property.

We have been sent all three yess, but two out of the three were issued after the date of our new tenancy agreement and the other weirdly was dated the date of the inspection which not only failed the property, but had a long list of works needing doing (to pass) some of which although very minor are still outstanding. Which surely cannot be right?
Yes gaps in dates are clear, it seems this was somehow forgotten or missed.
The wiring has been a big concern for some time.

We do have them, but the dates on some of them were after the date of our new contract which seems to be an issue, we think? Most of the big work now completed, but not all.

@toomuchfaff thanks for this. We had googled but were unclear whether or not fines are still possible once new certificates have been issued? And perhaps who should be notified if this is so serious? Google suggests yes?

We have to sign in receipt of the certificates and there seems to be a real urgency for this which is raising flags. Yes all were issued by relevant workmen who thankfully seem to know what they are doing.

Not at all any intent on our part no, we have no inclination to do this , it was a suggestion of a colleague who owns property and rents them out.

In terms of eviction it seems the landlord cannot evict us as the gas safety certificate was not in place when we signed. Rent increase was in last few months, so would genuinely hope no more for a good while yet. (We are paying market rate), but who knows what is actually possible these days?

@Maryamlouise we have never met our landlord, he lives we think in another part of the country and all messaging is done (painfully) through the agent. Forgot to answer this bit sorry. The only contact details we have for him are the address provided on the agreement. No phone or anything to find out.

I think if you want to avoid conflict or rent rises then pursuing your landlord for fines or compensation would be a bit short sighted. I think goodwill from a landlord is pretty priceless- there is of course what you are entitled to and to do, but I don’t think the pay off would make it worth your while

Yes the certificates should always be up to date so your agency/landlord are at fault here. However, they are now in place and the recommended work is being completed.

I've not heard of a landlord being criminally prosecuted for a past lapse that has been now been rectified. It's difficult to get criminals prosecuted for much worse offences so although technically a crime I don't think the Police will be interested.

Insist the works get completed in a timely manner. However, I wouldn't take it further unless you are happy to move to another property. It really isn't worth causing issues with your landlord.

Please see this from my original OP, we just cannot understand why this business of signing its such a burning priority when absolutely nothing else ever has been. Came here to understand this not launch legal proceedings!

N.B No desire on my part for any conflict or at all to leave our home, but we do have some very real concerns as to the safety here but have no clue how to judge this.

I very much recommend Rick Gannon on Facebook..his tips helped us get our whole house sorted after trying for years once we learnt the legal stuff

This is not the point of the thread. I know, but it's threads in general about lacksadaisical landlords that make me fume .

There are far too many amateur landlords around and tenants are screwed over

Anyone who wishes to be a landlord should be forced to take lessons on how to be a good landlord and how to deal with all associated issues in a legal and timely manner.

OP I hope that you can get these issues sorted and that any insurances are valid.
Shelter is a good place to start.

Good luck.

The gas safety certificate needs to be renewed every year. However, note that home owners themselves never ever need to get a gas safety certificate.
The EICR needs to be completed every 5 years - if it fails, the failed aspects need sorting out. However, often electricians make lots of recommendations that are “advisable”. Again, most homeowners never do this in their own house.

The EPC needs to be carried out every 10 years but I think only on change of tenant. The EPC needs to at least be an E.

EICR and EPC are relatively new developments. There are more and more obligations on landlords along these lines. Homeowners do not do these so it is often more a technical issue than a safety issue.
Is the home actually unsafe? Do you have smoke and carbon monoxide alarms and do you test them regularly to check you are safe (rather than some technical breach by your landlord?)

Agree with much of your sentiment, it's just so hopelessly frustrating always having to be on guard and trying to do the guesswork on what stunt is about to be pulled next.
Landlord lessons would be a great start too.... so many just have no regard for the impact their decisions have upon family households.
Have been trying to get through to Shelter, will persevere thanks.

“This is not the point of the thread. I know, but it's threads in general about lacksadaisical landlords that make me fume .”

There are some terrible landlords out there who allow properties to disintegrate and be full of mould etc. However, in this instance this appears to be more of a problem tenant trying to find a technical fault. The more problem tenants who think they can get a landlord on a technicality, the more the landlords leave the market and the less property to rent. Right now rents are sky high because tax laws changed and you cannot deduct mortgage interest, landlords cannot pass on costs anymore and there is on the horizon a S21 to be abolished as well as all EPC to be C. No small time landlord will be left after that. Which is fine, but only if there is a plan for that housing to be taken over and rented out accordingly by big landlords/councils. If not, you just get more and more tenants chasing fewer properties and rents get even higher.

“Please see this from my original OP, we just cannot understand why this business of signing its such a burning priority when absolutely nothing else ever has been. Came here to understand this not launch legal proceedings!”

Is there an estate agent and are they a listed business (listed on a stock exchange)? If so, you have your answer. They do not want properties on their books that do not comply with the technical letter of the law.

Have you had a proper look at the whole electrical cert you are being asked to sign for, the one dated before the remedial works were done?

If it failed that inspection, a certificate will have been issued, but it will say that it has failed on it and list the needed works. Are you sure that's not what this certificate is? If it is, I can't see any issue in you signing that you've seen it.

If it says it passed, and it didn't, and the works are still not done, then that is very concerning.

I would contact shelter and the council if you are still concerned about any outstanding inspections or works.

My understanding is that landlords can get into big trouble (fines or prison) if they are not up to date and if something dreadful happens. And can be threatened with fines for non-compliance. But to my knowledge ince done they are done, non-compliance is not retrospective or makes a tenant entitled to compensation like failure to put a deposit in a scheme is and does. It also cannot prevent rent increases or evictions.

You should have working smoke alarms, CO2 detectors and a heat alarm. Not sure how many of these are requirements or recommendations though would cost less then £100 for all.

So long as you were given the EPC and gas cert before moving in at the start of the tenancy (how would you prove this?) the sect 21 can be used (as long as the current gas safe cert is sent to the tenant first)

Any safety cert's can't be issued in lieu of safety work still to be done & the tenant doesn't sign for these either.

Changes to No Fault Evictions were dropped as were the EPC one, even the EPC E requirement is never enforced.

Disagree on LL's taking lessons, looking after a tenant in your own home is very basic, the problems arise due to a complete lack of enforcement.

I must admit i'm at a bit of a loss as to what this thread is about.

So you now have all certification and are safe and well and still living there?

So all the equipment works and is in good condition?

But you want some sort of compensation?

Finally, somebody gets my main concern, thank-you. No the certificate issued states date of inspection and reads as if no concerns.

First quote for corrective works came in at over £2k.