To think that emailing your colleagues from hols is a toxic behaviour

[Isthatrue]

I have a couple of people in my team (Managers) who are unable to switch off when on leave and constantly email and send message on Teams even when on leave. I am not talking about 1 follow up on an important matter but more of a proper back and forth on stuff that can easily wait and doesn’t need them to be involved. I can’t stand it! I think it’s a) sad to see they are unable to switch off from work and relax and b) creates a toxic culture for which some people think it is expected to be connected even if technically on leave.

Am I the only one to feel p.ss.d off about this?

Good lord! Where do you work please (obv not the company name but what kind of organisation)?
This seems pretty unreasonable to me

I think it's fine for someone to check in on e-mails etc occasionally whilst they are on holiday if it helps them to then relax (knowing that everything is OK and they are not coming back to a disaster) BUT only if they are happy for other people not to check in with work whilst on holiday.

I used to work for someone who was a terrible micro-manager and checked on e-mails etc every day when he was off (even on his honeymoon!). It was a nightmare for the rest of the team. The policy was for all communications on a particular project to be copied in to the entire team so he would call/e-mail at all times of the day and night with questions/criticisms about work that was being perfectly well handled, and expect everyone to answer. If anyone else was on holiday he would get very frustrated if they didn't check and respond to e-mails at least once a day. He had no understanding at all that a) many people can't properly relax if they are checking work daily and b) those of us who holiday with small children often don't have a quiet hour each day to ourselves to check work. He was very surprised that no-one stayed in his team for long and constantly complained about the lack of committed staff

Well that's on those people, not the managers!

I'd be thinking "what a total sad arse emailing about work when they're on leave"

It's like those email signatures "this was sent at a time convenient to the sender, please don't feel pressure to respond if this falls outside your normal hours" or whatever it says. I mean, who in their right mind was responding to them outside their normal hours...that's batshit behaviour.

I have not yet worked with ANYONE who gives that much of a toss about work that they'd worry they had to respond to/send messages when they're on leave.

You think it's ok to ignore your manager when they are on holiday but you are at work?

I've worked for a number of different employers, private and public sector. Nowhere would this have been ok.

That seems rude though, can’t you just ignore them from the start??

I have a senior role in a small company. My email app and teams app are removed from my phone (a work-provided phone which I also use for personal use) before I go on holiday. And I don't check my emails on the Sunday night before the first Monday back either. No way. Holiday time is precious.

If there was anything which really needed me, then my colleages know they could whatsapp me to ask, and I would of course reply. But as for engaging in 'stuff' that's happening on my projects - no way.

If a client phoned me on holiday, I would let it go to voicemail, then listen to the message and whatsapp the relevant person in the office and ask them to deal with it. My email out of office gives contact details for someone else so no-one is left wondering.

I would hate for more junior members of the team to feel there was some kind of expectation of engagement in work matters when on holiday.

Used to have a manager like this, it’s was just really irritating.
She thought she was indispensable, most people just found her inefficient and stressful to be around.
Her choice, but seems like a fast way to make yourself unwell and I don’t think anyone is genuinely impressed by it.

But why are you looking at your work email when you're on holiday? I expect to get emails while I'm away, but everyone will know that they won't get a response until I'm back as they will get my out of office message.
Don't look at your emails, OP, and hide all notifications. Sorted.

If they are managers they are setting a poor example and contributing to unhealthy company culture.

It’s virtual presenteeism and it is toxic.

I don't really switch off from work. My emails and teams are on my phone. I will always reply to quick questions directed to me - it takes me a couple of minutes and might save them a long time. I leave longer emails or pieces of work until I'm back. I'm also selective who I respond to and don't sent anything lengthy or directive to my team although will have much longer and more detailed correspondence with my boss.

I like to know what's going on and it helps me relax on holiday to keep an eye on things. Sure, I don't need to and my team are very capable but I hate coming back to work and spending the first day catching up on everything and getting a few surprises!

It's incredibly toxic- bully for everyone on this thread saying it wouldn't make them want to work on their leave, but for junior staff or people who are new to the company they may well see managers and leaders messaging from their holidays and think that's the expectation.

One thing is a very senior (and highly paid) manager or owner of a business answering a couple of emails while on holiday, another is an expectation that lower graded staff will do the same during theirs.

I think the rule has to be that emails do not get answered or generated by people who are on leave. If someone else needs to take over that person's work when they are away then by all means copy the absent one in but they are not responding.
I'd say have a gentle word to the boss. If they are a workaholic they probably can't stop working when on leave themselves, but that's their choice. It's their business. The expectation should be made clear, that there is no expectation.
Unless of course it's literally a business emergency but no one person surely could solve that type issue from their sun lounger if it was that gravely serious? Except the boss perhaps.

They'd have to TELL me that was the expectation before I'd even vaguely consider it.

And as soon as those words left their mouth I'd be off to another job like a shot.

Doesn't anyone reply back saying 'Aren't you on leave?'

I'll check in on my emails every so often while on leave so I can hit the ground running when I return. If I see something that I can help someone out with by sending a very quick response or anything catastrophic I'll reply but anything else is left for when I get back.

I recently saw an OOO autoresponse of a colleague which stated 'I am on annual leave until X and will be deleting all emails recieved during this time. If your email requires a response, please resend after this date'.

Amazed they were allowed to do this!

I agree with those saying that it's fine, as long as it is made very clear that the same isn't expected of other employees.

It's also absolutely impossible for anyone on this thread to answer whether it is or isn't okay in other people's businesses without knowing the specificities of those businesses, and what roles people do within them.

There are many advantages to being senior (higher pay being the obvious one) but the disadvantage is that the buck really does stop with you, and sometimes, a decision going one way or the other can make a difference of many thousands (or sometimes hundreds of thousands) of pounds, or indeed a risk to your job if things go badly.

I manage a team of over 50, and I do as others have said they do: log in once a day on holiday for 10 minutes. I only reply to truly essential things and I make it very clear to my staff that I don't expect the same from them. But I'd give short shrift to anyone who told me stop - let them try doing my job for a bit and they'd fully understand why I do it!

I think it's more than ok to point out when someone is being an overbearing arse, yes.

Managers "checking in" when they are on holiday just sends a hugely negative message of "I don't trust you plebs to do your jobs" and it's incredibly irritating at best.

Jeez, WTH - who are the 24% voting YABU ?

People need to switch off & take the holiday to recharge batteries, regardless of seniority. Plan accordingly when taking leave and share responsibility with remaining team members - it’s developmental to learn to manage issues in senior managers absence.

Very bad culture indeed

It's weird. My boss does a version of this. In my view there's no reason he couldn't take a normal holiday. Recently he took a day off without telling anyone and I was waiting for something from him. When he sent it he said that he's actually off but didn't want to burden me with this piece of work.

I felt guilt tripped. Firstly, I felt like I was a reason he didn't take the full day and secondly, I feel it's weak that he cannot say to his team 'right, I'll be off, can we just see how we are going to distribute xyz amongst the team ?' so he somehow comes out as the martyr and doesn't realise the effect this has on others.

I get that he'd have to check his phone for emergencies etc, but even so he could easily appoint a deputy to deal with these things.

aw-back in the day-i remember my mam actual volley'd my dads mobile phone into the sea(yes i know not very eco-but i dont know the ozone layer was on her mind).I never saw him laugh as much(cos he was workaholic and knew every phone number so coulda used hotel phone)thing is.he didnt.he kinda got a bit -itchy to.but he didnt.its real hard for some people to switch right off.

My phone is diverted to whoever is covering for me and my email out of office contains their contact details also.

Any aattempt to contact to me inspire of that is met with a pay rise request on my return. If a company cannot manage without me for 2 weeks, then I need to be paid more.

I think it's usually a sign of or a combination of.

1. Control freaks
2. People who aren't up to their job & try to hide it as much as possible - afraid someone will discover this why they are away
3. Stressed people & genuinely cannot which off
4. Unhappily married people who want an excuse to not enjoy a family holiday
5. People who haven't enough going on in their life

Often hard to tell the exact cause.

Our internal system and Teams is set up only to work with a UK IP address. If anyone attempts to login from outside the UK it disabled their accounts.
Much better for everyone as no one then feels pressured to be "present" if they're on holiday.

I think that's bloody outrageous. Everyone needs downtime.

When I'm off, I put my out of office and voicemail on and tell anyone with a pressingly urgent issue how to get in touch with one of my colleagues.

The only times anyone's bothered my colleagues, it wasn't urgent and they just needed reassuring that whatever needed doing could wait for me to get back.