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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say that the next generation is primarily screwed in terms of resilience

863 replies

Namechangechangeobv · 26/02/2024 13:14

And WTF do we do about it?

Obviously many young people are wonderfully resilient but the overall trend I’ve seen in my line of work (behavioural education) is that there are vast, and I mean VAST numbers of young adults who cannot leave the house, come into a classroom, look someone in the eye, make a phone call, speak infront of the class (if they make it in), cry when pronouns are wrong (daily occurrence), take responsibility to revise/get a job/learn to drive.

What is going to happen to these humans in the future?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
TheCadoganArms · 27/02/2024 10:27

moderate · 27/02/2024 10:00

Interesting discussion. Competing theories of how to build resilience in kids. I guess we will see how this plays out in the global marketplace. To some extent we already are, with DEI departments starting to see their budgets slashed. Employers want to hire capable candidates, not those who demand a gold star for everyone.

I work in the oil and gas industry for a multinational, we have employees from all over the world, mostly from other oil and gas centres like Kazakhstan, Malaysia, Nigeria, Angola, Azerbaijan etc It is all very cosmopolitan and makes for a very interesting work place. Our graduate recruitment programme is not just UK based and each year we get a large cohort of of overseas grads. What is noticeable is that generally, new young workers from the above countries are a lot less flaky then their UK counterparts. They take less time off, require less spoon feeding and supervision, they can take constructive feedback and generally don't shit the bed if on the odd occasion they have to work late. I don't believe for instant that the UK grads are less academically capable but there is a noticeable difference in attitude towards the job and how they apply themselves.

ShakerP3g · 27/02/2024 10:30

Tiggermom · 27/02/2024 09:58

I wonder what all these people suffering Mental Health problems think are going to fix it. There's counselling and medication, admission to hospital for seriously ill ones, but it's no magic bullet. If your life is not as healthy as it should be - good food and exercise and relaxation, in a stressful life situation - you're going to be hard to fix.

I am not talking about those with SENs or autism, adhd or extreme depression.

I think people are mislead into thinking that it can just be fixed by someone else.

No there is no counselling or admission to inpatient when needed. People seriously don’t know how bad it is. They think it’s all there until they know somebody who needs it and then they see there is nothing. No support at all even if you’re very unwell and suicidal.

Yep there are meds but meds alone aren’t the answer.

Notthisone · 27/02/2024 10:33

ShakerP3g · 27/02/2024 08:35

And re the 1 in 20 not working. I bet many are waiting for MH treatment. They will have been bumped off broken inadequate CAMHS with zero treatment into adult services where you can have multiple overdoses and still get nothing. Bet most would have preferred not be unwell during their teenage years and working. Maybe fix the atrocious MH provision in this country rather than berate the young people who need to use it. Older generations who haven’t had to deal with the current pressures instead enjoying a very pampered time in history berating youngsters who are having to navigate an utterly shite time won’t help improve anything

This compounds the problem. Many seeking treatment do not need specialist mental health treatment.
There is a considerable amount of support out there that is evidence based but like a lot of mental health treatment requires people to work at it.
My DS is suffering with Anxiety we have significantly reduced his screen time, worked on breathing exercises and increased his time spent outdoors doing exercise all of which are evidenced based interventions which improve anxiety. None of which require a specialist.
Yes there are interventions which require specialist but for most common mental health issues this isn't the case. However there is an expectation placed on MH services to fix peoples problems. If less people with common mental health issues expected/demanded specialist intervention then there would be more resources available to support those that need specialist intervention.
Yes there are gaps and increased resources required but the expectation being placed on services is huge and totally out of the scope of what they are commissioned to provide.

ShakerP3g · 27/02/2024 10:35

Notthisone · 27/02/2024 10:33

This compounds the problem. Many seeking treatment do not need specialist mental health treatment.
There is a considerable amount of support out there that is evidence based but like a lot of mental health treatment requires people to work at it.
My DS is suffering with Anxiety we have significantly reduced his screen time, worked on breathing exercises and increased his time spent outdoors doing exercise all of which are evidenced based interventions which improve anxiety. None of which require a specialist.
Yes there are interventions which require specialist but for most common mental health issues this isn't the case. However there is an expectation placed on MH services to fix peoples problems. If less people with common mental health issues expected/demanded specialist intervention then there would be more resources available to support those that need specialist intervention.
Yes there are gaps and increased resources required but the expectation being placed on services is huge and totally out of the scope of what they are commissioned to provide.

That isn’t correct. You won’t be referred by your GP to community mental health just for a bit of anxiety and you definitely won’t be taken on by community mental health. Community mental health services are struggling to cope with seriously unwell people who need help. Those on their books sit there with nothing for months.

taxguru · 27/02/2024 10:36

HeBeaverandSheBeaver · 27/02/2024 09:22

@TooOldForThisNonsense

I disagree

When I sat exams we had choices It was the be all and end all as it's touted now.

Teacher endlessly telling kids they need to pass or their life will be ruined. That's too much pressure on a teen. Their are always choices and teens should be told and given different options

We need good apprenticeships
Work based training
College
Jobs that you can progress in
Uni for the brightest.

Not the endless uni uni uni shit (which kids now realise can lead do huge dept and no golden job)

No wonder kids are anxious.

I fully agree. Blair and his 50% aim for youngsters going to Uni has caused massive damage. We've a major shortage of skilled trade/manual workers. At the same time, we've loads of graduates with random degrees and £50k in debts still working in Tesco or McDonalds!

Kids who know they're not going to get top grades in GCSE and A levels so are unable to aim for Uni are disenfranchised and become disruptive as they see no point in bothering. Kids who "may" get good enough qualifications to get to Uni end up depressed if they start struggling and see marks going downhill.

We need a lot more emphasis in schools on alternative "non academic" routes, and not just the lip service to making wooden fishes and metal trowels! The education system needs to massively beef up non academic options in schools to get the non academic kids thinking and doing other things. Colleges need to offer a lot more courses. We need a lot more "old fashioned" style of secondary modern or technical schools. We need a return of adult education which was dismembered around 20-30 years ago so that people who are mid 20s and above have options for getting more qualifications and learning skills in evening classes etc alongside work.

We've suffered far too much emphasis on 16-21 year olds, virtually all educational resources directed at them. Nothing for over 21s and schools have remained in the dark ages teaching a largely irrelevant curriculum to probably halve their pupils!

Spendonsend · 27/02/2024 10:45

My son actually has good care from a cahms clinincal psychologist and it has improved his ability to take part in everyday life hugely I am really nervous about the transition to adult services. Particularly whether his medication will continue.

There seems to be this idea that if we support people we are dooming them to lifelong failure on this thread and that they should just get a grip and get on with it but my experience is support has lead to more resilience not less. literally one of the biggest things of 'how to build resilience' is having support networks.

DropDeadFreida · 27/02/2024 10:49

Spendonsend · 27/02/2024 10:45

My son actually has good care from a cahms clinincal psychologist and it has improved his ability to take part in everyday life hugely I am really nervous about the transition to adult services. Particularly whether his medication will continue.

There seems to be this idea that if we support people we are dooming them to lifelong failure on this thread and that they should just get a grip and get on with it but my experience is support has lead to more resilience not less. literally one of the biggest things of 'how to build resilience' is having support networks.

I actually think a lot of people on this thread are not saying that, what a lot of people are saying is that the majority of the population do need to focus on building more resilience so that the support can go to where it is actually needed, for people like your son.

Aintbaint · 27/02/2024 10:55

I find it strange how open they are about their ‘struggles’ - as in we’ll be on a large video call about work, a product launch or similar and the staff in their 20s will frequently bring up their personal life, circumstances or experience as part of the convo.
I find it so weird. Like, why do 50 people in a call need to know you won’t be at that thing because that’s when your therapy is, or you relate to that subject because your dad walked out when you were 15 etc??
share it with HR or a manager but I don’t need to know someone in an office on another continent is tired because they do t sleep because of anxiety …

BogRollBOGOF · 27/02/2024 10:55

I think awareness of the state of the world rather than it's actual state is a factor. Economically and geo-politically we're not in a vastly different state to previous decades like the 1980s, but reporting is constantly emotive and omnipresent if you let it be rather than factual reporting in 30 min news programs and reading a newspaper. Debate has been reduced to a limited number of character, lost nuance and become polarised and tribal. Most people instinctively want to be decent but fear of not being #bekind can push people into awkward stances.

There always were mental health difficulties. There were certainly plenty of eating disorders and self-harming in my cohort in the 90s at school and it's good that things aren't brushed under the carpet, but there is a lack of provision of timely support when serious issues emerge due to underfunding and working conditions.

Education has become more narrow and higher stakes. It's harder to find escape and alternative ways of skilling up since the loss off Saturday jobs. Everything is seemingly dependent on exams and from a very young age children are drilled to know how they're doing against targets. There is little chance to let children play informally and work out the world for themselves.

There's little scope for safe, low-risk failures to learn from. I cocked up my first GCSE coursework, but learned a lot about organusation and time management from it; more than I'd have learned from being scaffolded through it. Before controlled assessments were scrapped, schools couldn't take that risk and it took staff a lot of effort to guide pupils through the process. Exam leave has pretty much been scrapped with little independent study time. Target culture has a lot to answer for.

Young people are amazing, but they're being raised in a world that has shifted significantly since their parents were young. As a parent, it's hard to stand against the tide of technology, plus resisting outright carries its own harms of social isolation. Finding balance is tough I do my best to raise my children growing the skills they need to grow into well-developed adults, but I can't change social expectations, government funding and targets.

The wider trends were happening anyway, but the Covid era added mass disruption to routines, instability, withdrew support and made waiting lists back-up. It's made it harder to distinguish temporary delays from underlying issues. Having had a y4 with diagnosed learning issues, and an undiagnised y2 in 2020, it's been much harder getting the younger child's issues recognised and supported since, and he's struggled more, for longer, for the delays in diagnosis and support. He also had less secure foundations in his learning. He's young enough that he's now catching up before a critical stage of education and moving up to secondary, but it has affected all of his junior school years. For those who limped through exam years and uni, that's been much more lasting in effects academically and socially into launching into adulthood.

Tiggermom · 27/02/2024 11:02

There is global competition for jobs. Everyone speaks English. Good qualifications are needed more than ever - I wouldn’t say this is anyone’s fault -perhaps financially supporting young people into a trade would help. A neighbour can’t take on an apprentice due to insurance to have them in the workshop - and couldn’t afford to pay minimum wage either. He will retire soon. No one is carrying on the business.

Phoebefail · 27/02/2024 11:05

@yellomar You say among other things "They didn't understand mental
health and saw behaviour as deliberate acting out, something to be smacked down hard, rather than any attempt to figure it out. Behaviour is
communication.
Zero positive reinforcement. Just behaviour points, detentions, lack of support,
lack of resources and blaming parents

Did it not keep the 'show on the road' though? So much of this new attitude is giving up and allowing them to opt out of anything difficult.

yellomar · 27/02/2024 11:07

Phoebefail · 27/02/2024 11:05

@yellomar You say among other things "They didn't understand mental
health and saw behaviour as deliberate acting out, something to be smacked down hard, rather than any attempt to figure it out. Behaviour is
communication.
Zero positive reinforcement. Just behaviour points, detentions, lack of support,
lack of resources and blaming parents

Did it not keep the 'show on the road' though? So much of this new attitude is giving up and allowing them to opt out of anything difficult.

the opposite, in fact.

Atethehalloweenchocs · 27/02/2024 11:16

That isn’t correct. You won’t be referred by your GP to community mental health just for a bit of anxiety and you definitely won’t be taken on by community mental health. Community mental health services are struggling to cope with seriously unwell people who need help. Those on their books sit there with nothing for months.

Actually I think you are both correct in some ways. There is a huge provision in primary care MH which was not there 10- 15 years ago and which can adequately treat most common MH problems. But at the same time this was developed, the community MH services, such as CAMHS, CPNs etc were massively cut through 'efficiency savings'. So, if your problem is complex, or needs long term intervention, you will probably turned down, or if accepted, sit waiting for months. Meanwhile the government pretends to put money into MH without acknowledging the carnage they have caused in the specialist services.

shearwater2 · 27/02/2024 11:24

Aintbaint · 27/02/2024 10:55

I find it strange how open they are about their ‘struggles’ - as in we’ll be on a large video call about work, a product launch or similar and the staff in their 20s will frequently bring up their personal life, circumstances or experience as part of the convo.
I find it so weird. Like, why do 50 people in a call need to know you won’t be at that thing because that’s when your therapy is, or you relate to that subject because your dad walked out when you were 15 etc??
share it with HR or a manager but I don’t need to know someone in an office on another continent is tired because they do t sleep because of anxiety …

Oversharers gonna overshare but I'd prefer openness to never discussing these things.

shearwater2 · 27/02/2024 11:26

Spendonsend · 27/02/2024 10:45

My son actually has good care from a cahms clinincal psychologist and it has improved his ability to take part in everyday life hugely I am really nervous about the transition to adult services. Particularly whether his medication will continue.

There seems to be this idea that if we support people we are dooming them to lifelong failure on this thread and that they should just get a grip and get on with it but my experience is support has lead to more resilience not less. literally one of the biggest things of 'how to build resilience' is having support networks.

Thank you. That's my take exactly.

VampireWeekday · 27/02/2024 11:27

I think that life is hard and has always been hard, in different ways. The increased social isolation and job precariousness of course will take its toll on a person. I think the main difference between now and the past is young people have a voice that gets heard and amplified. In the past there was just no way for you to know how the average 21 year old woman or man felt about their situation. Now you know, because we've normalised expressing ones own dissatisfaction (a good thing) and because there are more means of hearing about it through twitter etc.

I'm sure people have always complained about their lives and criticised the systems that governed them. In fact, we know that they did, because literature represents one of the only forms of record we have and is full of dissatisfaction.

Namechangechangeobv · 27/02/2024 11:28

solsticelove · 27/02/2024 00:12

I also think this weaponisation of the word ‘resilience’ is a convenient unintelligent way of blaming people (here young people) for the issues in society rather than looking at the society/ environment we have placed our young people in.

The concept of resilience is used to victim blame and psychologically bash people about. It’s a passive aggressive tactic/weapon used to person blame.

I’d counsel OP to think through her use of the word and think a little more deeply about WHY the young people in her care are struggling so much.

There is literally nowhere that I blame the young people. I’ve said in several posts that this is a societal problem.

there is also something to be said about those who chuck the old ‘victim blaming’ in when it’s not needed - this really does take the power away from the word and those who truly deserve it.

OP posts:
Notthisone · 27/02/2024 11:29

Atethehalloweenchocs · 27/02/2024 11:16

That isn’t correct. You won’t be referred by your GP to community mental health just for a bit of anxiety and you definitely won’t be taken on by community mental health. Community mental health services are struggling to cope with seriously unwell people who need help. Those on their books sit there with nothing for months.

Actually I think you are both correct in some ways. There is a huge provision in primary care MH which was not there 10- 15 years ago and which can adequately treat most common MH problems. But at the same time this was developed, the community MH services, such as CAMHS, CPNs etc were massively cut through 'efficiency savings'. So, if your problem is complex, or needs long term intervention, you will probably turned down, or if accepted, sit waiting for months. Meanwhile the government pretends to put money into MH without acknowledging the carnage they have caused in the specialist services.

Absolutely true, there is lots of provision in primary care, however many people decline it or reject it as they feel they need more.

Specialist services have really been cut and need resources and transformation but they are also being overwhelmed with referrals for common mental health problems. So struggle to keep up with demand.

I can absolutely guarantee that GPs and many other professionals refer lots of common mental health issues including a 'bit of anxiety' to specialist services every single day. Once referred the specialist services have to do something with it even if that means contacting the individual and signposting to alternative support. This takes up a huge amount of resource which would be better used elsewhere supporting those that need specialist intervention rather than signposting and education.

It's a little bit like referring to a brain surgeon the first time someone presents at the GP with a headache.

moderate · 27/02/2024 11:38

yellomar · 27/02/2024 11:07

the opposite, in fact.

Which facts are you referring to here?
It may be possible for a society as a whole to be more resilient even if some individuals suffer more as a consequence.
It may even be necessary for some individuals to suffer more in order for society as a whole to be more resilient.

Crunchingleaf · 27/02/2024 11:43

We are animals and we haven’t had the chance to evolve to keep up with our environments and societal changes.

The pace of change is off the charts compared to the past. Since the Industrial Revolution this has accelerated. However, for huge parts of human history the way people lived didn’t alter all that much over a period of 100’s of years. Most of human history we were rural not urban. That itself is a huge change.

Our economic system is unsustainable. Both from POV of the planet. But also western economies are a pyramid scheme. We think things like large scale immigration will fix our pension issues …..but who pays their pensions? (Yes a certain level of immigration is a positive). The rich are accumulating more and more wealth at the expense of everyone else.

Many people are getting disillusioned with trying to raise a family, while commuting to work full time, run a household plus any other responsibilities they have. Kids will naturally pick up the stressed out vibes their parents give off.

I think if increases in MH issues as the canary in the coal mine. Many parents have MH issues and that absolutely does impact their children.

Missamyp · 27/02/2024 11:45

It seems like the newer generations have rejected many of the values held dear by Baby Boomers and Gen X. This could be due to the unstable world they live in created by the above groups.

Additionally, these generations are more likely to experience divorce, leading to fewer long-term relationships and more casual ones or opting out altogether. Hard work no longer guarantees success. There is an empirical observation that the idea of an employee assimilating into a corporate identity is rejected. Work-life balance is now paramount.

The COVID-19 pandemic has had a significant impact on young people. They were out of school, and education lost some of its value as a result.
Education, particularly at school, needs to change and modernize. I feel that sociological economics, business studies, and behaviour would be more interesting than the endless saturation of STEM. I also think the world university has its place, but more investment from employees is a better avenue. However, the technical trades need to be upgraded to a minimum diploma level with a business management module.
Another thought is that mental health awareness is now front and centre, and advocacy is being exploited, particularly in the workplace.

Differentfromtherest · 27/02/2024 11:49

To add my tuppence worth.

In my mid-50s now, I've battled mental health issues since I was 12, including depression and social anxiety.

Good points about my era: Childhood was for the most part good. Lots of freedom, no social media, and no gadgets so had to entertain self. This involved spending lots of time outdoors interacting with peers, using old-fashioned devices like bikes, roller skates, legs, and imagination. This, I believe, helped build up resilience to manage my issues later in life.

Bad things: Very little awareness of these issues. and not much help or support, so suffered in silence and just got on with it. I believe I lost 2 jobs due to my social anxiety, which hindered my career and affected my already low self-esteem and mental health. This may not have happened if there had been more protection in the workplace.

Good and bad combined: Financial constraints imposed responsibility, eliminated the option to opt out of society, and instilled a sense of accountability, rather than expecting others to solve your problems. But not everyone has the capacity or social support to manage it by themselves.

No internet until I was in my mid-20s. The internet was good in some ways, as it enabled me to understand what was happening to me and explore ways to self-manage. However, it's now saturated with self-diagnosis tools and dependency expectations.

I overcame my anxiety because I had no choice but to work and carry on. Hiding away, and avoiding things will not help you move forward. You will simply be stuck where you are, unable to reach your full potential or follow your dreams. While financial aid like PIP has its merits, it can also enable avoidance rather than empowerment.

Devonshiregal · 27/02/2024 12:14

dimllaishebiaith · 26/02/2024 22:49

Nope just some resilience I never said big

And given you also said that it shouldnt be traumatic if you are resilient we are basically saying the same thing

Oh I see. I think I must have misconstrued you meaning sorry

SheerLucks · 27/02/2024 12:19

@taxguru your son's experience is exactly what my DD17 is now finding at her 6th Form college.

When she started last September she had a nice group of friends there on a WhatsApp group, but this soon swelled to about 40 people and every meet up is now apparently like a drunk, screeching party and she doesn't enjoy it.

She said she longs to just sit in a pub and have a nice conversation with smaller group of friends.

Sorry OP if this was a bit off-topic!

Crunchingleaf · 27/02/2024 13:13

The generational blame game is very, very harsh. Especially when blaming them for climate change. It is now cheaper to replace many things then repair them. Do you honestly think that is the fault of a retired teacher, nurse or former factory worker. We are still making bad decisions regarding the environment and climate change and we should know better.

Most older people just went to work and maybe raised a family.