AIBU to say that some people can’t change?

[Queenconsult]

Got into a bit of an argument with my DM at the weekend and I’m wondering whether I’m being unreasonable for thinking (and saying) that I don’t believe some people can change.

backstory - I’ve never got on with my DMs partner we’ve never clicked and the rest of the family feels the same way, he has very outdated views and isn’t very understanding to mental health conditions, additional needs, makes comments you’d expect to see in the sun etc. (hopefully you get the picture)

mum is of the opinion he is a product of his environment and that he is growing as a person over the years, they’re now engaged and we need to try and work past our differences.

The biggest issue I have is that he has made some really vile comments over the years about my younger sister who has OCD and my husband who suffers with depression, these comments were said in earshot of myself and he didn’t make much of an effort to whisper. He has been confronted each time and every time there is a big fall out.

Since having DS(now 2) I’ve been a bit distanced, I won’t spend much time with him, if it’s a large family event we will go, but don’t go to meals our just with mum and him anymore as I don’t like to be around him.

DM confronted me about this at the weekend as she wants to go away for her 60th next year with the whole family and I’ve politely declined as I don’t want to spend a lot of time around her DP. She thinks I’m being narrow minded in thinking people can’t change. I responded I think people in general sure can change, but from what I’ve seen and experienced her partner isn’t one of them.

AIBU to have been a bit blunt in saying that?

Do you think people can change? Am I being petty (I do hold grudges so find it hard to evaluate if I’m being ott or normal)

People only change when they acknowledge that they have to change. Your mother’s bf sounds like he doesn’t see any problem with his views so won’t change.

a) unfathomable that your mother has continued a relationship with a man who has spoken like this about her daughter

b) when was last time he made these comments

No, you’re right. He sounds bigoted. Not someone I’d want a 2 year old learning from.

People in general can probably change but it doesn't sound like he will

People can and absolutely do change, as society and attitudes change. Just look at our attitudes towards gay people in the UK and Ireland over the last 2 decades. Older people embracing gay marriage when they wouldn’t previously.

So it makes sense to give people a chance. But also have at the back of your mind previous comments… and use your eyes and ears to see if they still hold these views - go by recent evidence and give people benefit of the doubt to some extent until they show who they are.

Sounds like you mum needs to change too before i’d be going away with her

I think that for the most part people can change, in theory. The question is more the likelihood that they will, and this comes down to incentives and forces that are acting on them.
I think habits and behaviors tend to become more entrenched the older we get, it's easier to stick to the pathway that you have worn over the years, you tend to default to it.
He sounds like an opinionated and unpleasant boor, likely believes himself to be in the right at all times and will see no need to change.
I wouldn't bother arguing back and forth with your mother I would just find a quick phrase to shut her down and then carry on doing what works for you.

The last time I heard him say something nasty was about 3 years ago (which is why she thinks I’m being a bit ott holding onto it)

I think this is the key, he applogises every time, but just doesn’t seem to ‘get it’

He has accepted he is very insecure and gets worked up when he believes people think they’re ’better than him’ and then lashes out.

I appreciate his self reflection and that he apologizes but to make so many nasty comments, especially about things people can’t change really makes me quite upset

Well originally I thought you were not being unreasonable but if it has been three years then surely that is evidence he has been changing the way he speaks about these issues?

But you’re writing here in the present tense that he makes all these nasty comments, yet in the post before you say it has bene three years.

How long exactly do you need before you consider he has been making changes?

You say here he has apologised and reflected on his actions and then gone years without doing it again - what more do you need him to do?

or that he hasn’t said it in earshot.

I haven’t spent much time with him in those years due to these issues.

His last nasty comment was describing my husband as a ‘miserable ginger twat’ because he was struggling in a big family event and a little withdrawn.

and in that 3 years since.. you’ve not spent christmas or birthdays or any visits whatsoever?

and have you ever talked to your mum about how she can be with a man who talks like this about her daughter?

There’s a difference between can’t change and won’t change.

Well he still makes comments that are nasty, just not towards anyone in particular in my earshot.

He still reposts dodgy stuff on Facebook about kids with autism, he still watches GB news and bemoans the boat people.

I don’t believe he has actually stopped thinking these things about people, just has got better at not saying it in earshot of anyone

You haven’t heard him say anything nasty for three years? I think you need to give him a chance. You can’t say that he might still be like that you haven’t had a chance to see it, because equally he might not be!!!!

Well he still makes comments that are nasty, just not towards anyone in particular in my earshot.

but then you said last time you heard him say anything was 3 years ago

So it’s someone else telling you he’s said this?

Of course I have, but I just don’t spend time with him or around him.

as a family we have a little rule, we will only go to an event with him there if there are at least 6/7 other people so we don’t have to really speak to him.

People can absolutely change for the better but they have to be able to self-reflect and accept they need to change.

In this case you have a few issues:

• your mother's partner is making inappropriate comments about other family members
• your mother has decided to be and stay in a relationship with a man who thinks it is OK to make unpleasant comments about other people because of their long term health issues
• she claims that people can change but if that was the case her partner should have apologised to you and your husband for the comments he made in the past.

Frankly in your case I would also continue to distance myself from this man and to make it clear that it is not up to you to keep the peace and make the first steps.

If he really has changed (which I doubt) it is up to him to owned up to his mistakes and make it clear he regrets what he said.

Frankly I never understand why some women are so keen/desperate to be in a relationship that they will just ignore dodgy behaviour and inflict crappy men on their kids, even adults ones...

Oh right. Well that would also make me think he hadn’t changed too. I’m with you then.

She thinks I’m being narrow minded

Oh, the irony.

Of course, her view is ‘it’s complicated and he only says things out of being concerned for me’

I said the last time I heard him say anything nasty about anyone in particular was 3 years ago.

Thats the last time he made offensive comments about my sister.

I’ve still heard him be nasty about people we don’t know in passing, when items come up on the news, when discussing anything as a group etc. which in my view proves he hasn’t really changed his opinions, or grown as a person, he has just been a bit more discrete about what he says to who.

You want him to change and suddenly conform to modern ways of thinking?
He is perfectly entitled to think what he wants. He doesn't have to change for you.
A lot of people think how he does but don't admit it in public because of the fallout. At least he is honest.
You cannot get everyone to have the same opinions as you. If that was the case I'd have fallen out with half my friends and probably all of my relatives.
I just see them and don't talk about sensitive issues or change the subject.
It's a shame you let him get in the way of your relationship with your mother.