To think service charges should be banned?

[Precipice]

I think it totally unacceptable for restaurants to add extra charges onto the bill and put the onus on the customer to have these charges removed.

To me, this is no different than if I went to Lidl or Waterstones and had my shopping totalled up as 20.99 and then the shop added an extra 2.09 automatically and forced me to apply to them to remove it; or if the item price said 12.99, but the till was deliberately set up to charge me 15.99.

I see this more and more. I think this should be made illegal under consumer protection.

YABU - it's fine for any industry to add on whatever extra charge they want as long as they eventually remove it for customers who raise it with them

YANBU - customers should only be charged according to listed price for the item/service chosen

I hate this too. I would have absolutely no problem if I knew for certain that it was shared between the waitstaff and the kitchen staff, but I know it’s very rarely done that way. Would rather tip for extra good service directly to the person with cash so I know they get it.

I don't even understand a service charge on a big group - how is it more work to serve a table of 10 than two tables of 5?

Because the two tables of 5 aren't sitting down at exactly the same time, don't order at exactly the same time and they aren't having their meals and drinks delivered at the same time, they're a little bit staggered usually so that you haven't got 10 meals hitting the pass at the same time needing to go asap.

So you may well need an extra member of staff that evening to ensure that happens, most wait staff can carry two, three plates maximum at a time , 10 plates plus any sides etc can mean 5/6 trips to the kitchen at maybe up to a minute a trip, that's 5/6 minutes that the person with the first meal is waiting until everything is delivered to the table. People complain "You knew we were coming, why didn't you have more staff on?!" But the restaurant is getting the same revenue for a table of 10 as they are for 2 tables of 5, so in order to ensure the table of 10 gets served as fast as possible, they deploy the extra member of staff - who isn't free.

Plus possibly more staff in the kitchen because of course cooking 10 meals to be ready to go at the same time is harder than cooking 5 meals ready to go at the same time, and making an order of 10 drinks obviously takes longer than an order of 5.
And of course the larger the group the more of an effect that has, so the more staff you need.

I personally don't agree with adding a service charge to any bill, but I can see why some do it, especially in the current climate where screaming 'shit customer service' at anything is rife, so you do what you can to avoid that by ensuring the food and drink is delivered to the table as fast as possible.

I hate it! Tipping should be discretionary. We usually pay it regardless as asking to take it off makes you look like a cheapskate. We have asked for it to be removed a couple of times, once as the service was poor and another time, the service charge would have come to about £40!

Both times the waiter serving us was obliged to bring their manager over to our table who repeatedly questioned us about why we weren't paying the service charge and if anything was wrong! This is SO awkward for the customer and completely unacceptable! We felt they were trying to harass us into paying it! It should always be optional and customers certainly should not be harrassed into paying it. It's different in the USA etc as waiting staff are not paid a minimum wage.

I don't mind for larger tables if it goes directly to the person serving. I've been out in big groups where people thought it was OK to leave a couple of pounds for a table of 10 which isn't on.

I hate it for smaller tables in restaurants and it puts me off going places that do it. This is not America, we expect to see prices with tax, service etc already calculated before making a decision to buy something. I always tip but I want it to be my choice.

I asked a waitress once if they actually received the money from service charges. She said they did but it was added to their wages and they'd rather have the cash.

Yep you can. I always ask for the service charge to be removed even though I’m often met with frowns/snarky comments. More time, I’ve ordered my food from a bloody QR code and you want to put a service charge on top?! There was barely any service…

The full price of what you have to pay should be the price you see. No guessing or maths. If I have £30 for a pub lunch I don’t want to be seeing a bill for £39. That be £6 for service charge and 10% of £36 is 3.60 which we have added for you.

Unless there is a go to the kitchen door and order and collect your own meals. Then bringing my food I’ve bought to me shouldn't. Be an extra charge. Tell me it’s £36 upfront and I will decided if I can afford it or not.

Unless it’s been a big group or lots of back n forth no tip. I don’t tip the checkout staff or the Tesco delivery driver (it’s not even allowed) It’s a customer facing roll that’s hourly paid.

I would like to see service charges abolished and the costs of their staffing absorbed into the cost of the menu items. If I’ve had exceptional service I’ll leave a good review online.

Can you just pay the amount in cash without leaving the tip amount so if the bill is £33 and £3 has been added as a tip, could you just put down £30 cash if you don't want to pay the tip? I've done this once when the service was terrible and they didn't stop me or anything.

YANBU at all. I pay it most times, but if the experience is shit I have no problem telling them to take it off.

Oh this winds me up so much!!! We’ve just got back from America- the tip and tax (I understand the tax) put us off going out or nipping in somewhere for a drink! At every point they wanted tipping. So we just didn’t do certain things. And it’s now becoming similar in the UK- I agree there should be protection.

We went to Six by Nico - they added on a 18% service charge and a charity donation without asking. It added on £20. So again you have to factor that cost in- and decide if you want to pay it and are happy to go. I find it awkward not paying it so just avoid going now to places!

My preference would be for all restaurants to have the service charge built into their food prices, would save so much hassle. Then if the customer wants to leave extra they can, but it is not expected.

I do think though that if a menu states there is a service charge, you should not get it removed unless the service has been very poor. You know that charge will be added to your bill, if you do not agree, dine elsewhere.

I agree. I think it’s a bizarre concept when you break it down.

A business charges customers for goods or services at a price that covers their overheads and turns a profit. Customer views the prices and decides whether to purchase said goods or services.

But some businesses then feel they deserve “tips” or add additional charges. Why?

How come checkout assistants aren’t able to ask for tips? Is their job not as valuable as a waiter/ress? Is a bus driver less deserving than a taxi driver? Is a shop owner more able to cover their overheads than a restaurant owner?

It’s ridiculous. If your business model doesn’t cover your overheads then you shouldn’t be running that business, it’s not viable. You can’t advertise one price, then expect the customer to pay more on top.

Completely agree, and as a PP says, it’s a ridiculous concept when you think about it. Just add the charge to the food prices. Except they won’t of course, because that would rightfully deter potential customers.

The staff running these establishments know full well that must people are too timid to ask for the charge to be removed, and so the practice continues. I always ask, and be always the staff member looks a bit affronted, wherever it is. If the staff aren’t getting paid well, it’s not my problem.

I completely agree, particularly about drinks such as wine.

It’s one thing paying 10/15% on the food service, or cocktails, which have taken time to prepare. But if the food portion of a bill is £60 and the wine could be £140, why is there an expectation of increased service charge?

Pulling a cork out of a pricey bottle isn’t any more effort.

I was told in no uncertain terms, probably about 6 months ago, to take the service charge off and a lovely long lecture about how I shouldn't expect tips and how it was disgusting etc etc, oh and told how I'd arranged my face was unacceptable too, that it reflected my attitude and was awful etc (didn't open my mouth after being told to be quiet when I tried to respond ).

Thing is we don't have a service charge.

At the end of his tirade -
"So are you going to remove it then?"
"We don't have a service charge Sir"
"What's this then?" Stabs at figure on bill
"The VAT Sir, already included in the final total"

Oh my, that did not go down well. Apparently I was then smug. 🤷🏼‍♀️

He'd already decided that I was going to have an issue with removing the service charge, and treated me accordingly, even though I had nothing to be affronted about because there isn't one, he directed his own discomfort at asking for it to be removed onto me by default.

I'd imagine that many people asking for a service charge do the same, they've decided the staff are going to be affronted because they feel uncomfortable and no matter what is actually said or done by the staff, they're treated like they have an issue even if they don't.

It's the companies putting this on, not the staff serving your table, you've no choice but to ask them to remove it, but don't take out the discomfort you feel for asking on them.

I'm not planning to! On the other hand, I can go to Japan, where I've heard a story of a friend-of-a-friend being pursued out onto the street to be given his extra change he'd left as a tip back.

But I don't think either of these extremes on the scale should weigh on what's done in this country.

It should be added to their wages, it's legally earnings. The only reason to prefer cash is to avoid tax, NI and UC deductions.

I've worked for too many dodgy companies where staff don't see tips unless they're handed to them personally in cash by the customer, so I always ask for it to be removed so I can leave a cash tip of my choice.

I agree I don't like that it's automatically added, but service a large group (say 8+) is much harder than serving 4 tables of 2. Trying to build up any rapport with a large group and deal with all their little requests, dietary requirements, preferences, plus keeping on top of drinks orders and running food quickly can be stressful. Because of that, I do think the extra work should be recognised, but it should be the company who recognises this, not the customer.

I would often chose to look after the larger parties myself (as a supervisor then manager) because I knew I was being paid (a tiny bit) more and had slightly more authority to speed up the kitchen or comp off items if needed without adding extra time onto the customers experience.

I'm confused. 10% would be £3.20, and 15% would be £4.80. Why are they excessive, but a fiver is fine?

(I hope I've done my sums right....)

I agree I don't like that it's automatically added, but service a large group (say 8+) is much harder than serving 4 tables of 2. Trying to build up any rapport with a large group and deal with all their little requests, dietary requirements, preferences, plus keeping on top of drinks orders and running food quickly can be stressful. Because of that, I do think the extra work should be recognised, but it should be the company who recognises this, not the customer

See I disagree that the customer shouldn't pay for the extra that is required to serve a large group, if they want the service to be the same as if it were a table for two, it costs more when it's a large group to deliver that service, but the food is the same price. It would be the same takings for one group of 8 as four tables of 2, but would cost more to have the service at the same level, and if they keep the staff ratio the same, then the service suffers, usually of other tables meaning discounts applied there. It could end up being a loss maker.

I don't think it should be added automatically, but a communication on booking with an explanation.

The customer shouldn’t be subsidising the staff’s wages, regardless of how many people are being served. The waiting staff know what they’re getting into when they sign their contracts. Serving one person or 10, it’s what they’re paid to do.

Move to Singapore! (Ok maybe not practical) I prefer to leave a tip when I have had excellent service and sometimes it has been accepted but I have been chased up the street in order to give me back my tip more than once - always with a smile too. I hope the wait staff are paid accordingly.

If it is clearly marked before you order then I have no issue, it is a choice to eat there or not

I always thought that they added the percent on for large parties because otherwise they would get a smaller tip overall.
Tables for two happy to tip £5 to £10 whereas customers balk at leaving £50 to £100 for a table for 10.

Not to mention the cheeky bill splitters who pay last and walk off with the tips.