AIBU as a Type 1 Diabetic, to be baffled the seemingly sudden influx of non diabetics using CGM's...?

[OSAP]

If your pancreas works, you don't need one.

Blood glucose isn't exclusively influenced by the food you eat so 'personalised nutrition plans' 'metabolic trackers' etc etc are a, usually expensive, gimmick.

Nobody seemed too fussed about their 'blood glucose' when it involved finger pricks, but the Freestyle Libre now seems to have become a must have accessory for the 'worried well' who now seem to need to know what their blood sugar is doing, all while not really understanding what most of it means.

@FabFebHalfTerm of course you’re also a ‘real diabetic’ because you’re Type 2!

I am not talking about any diabetics, I am talking about people who have no medical need whatsoever but have been led to believe that tracking how your body responds to certain foods is important.

They can lose weight and get healthier without sticking a CGM on their arm, but then the £££ of these ‘programmes’ probably doesn’t seem worth it without an app and some technology alongside.

It really really really hacks me off. It's just money, and zoning in on peoples health anxiety. That Pratt Steven Bartlett advertising Zoe: 6 Mar 2023 — Dragons Den's investor Steven Bartlett has invested £2M in Professor Tim Spector's personalised nutrition company ZOE. So it's all down to money.

I am a type 1, my whole life. I've used libre 2, cgm's with my pump.

Even type 2's, Why on earth would you be testing more than a few times a day? So why wear something that you don't have to? Just so you can scan it a few times?

Have you ever worn one? They are horrible!! Something that is sticky and itchy and an irritant and has a small plastic tube. The body automatically always tries to excrete thinking that it is a foreign object.

I wear one because I have to why on earth would anyone else the stupidity makes my blood rage with anger.

@Oblomov24 it’s bizarre.

An fully functioning artificial pancreas more pressing than another cgm, I think, particularly as they still only measure interstiitial glucose rather than blood glucose, which finger-pricks do. Appreciate tho, that even with this limitation, they are life-changing for some!

I also wonder if, for the initial two weeks of the Zoe app when they are wearing the Libre, that people tend to eat differently.

Bit like if you’re logging all your food to count calories, it often means you eat less of some things and far more of others (hope that makes sense!)

As a fellow type one the newest wave of adverts where people look scared to insert them and then say “it didn’t even hurt!” Gives me the ick too

@ekoreetaeaekoetetautohetohekitepoauau There is an artificial pancreas in the US apparently. Very early days though.

Potentially available to Zoe subscribers by 2025 😉

I am very impressed that you can get someone to spend over £200 on something they have no need of

You could say that about so many things other people value: holidays, clothes, new cars, alcohol, organic food, football season tickets, Christmas presents for the kids, West End theatre tickets, sports kit, concerts... sometimes I think that of cosmetic treatments... nails, highlights, botox etc. But it's not my business what other competent adults spend their money on <shrug> OP you seem deeply invested in other people's approaches to their health. I find that bizarre.

Oh and this thread stinks of contempt towards type 2 diabetes sufferers. I didn't know that was a thing. You learn something new every day I guess.

Oh please! That's ridiculous.
Do not insult me by calling me an eye rolling miser who needs to give my head a shake, ffs. How arrogant!
As a society we are sinking under the weight of stupidity

Is n't this caused by "health gurus" like David Sinclair?

Totally agree that if you don't have diabetes you only need to get checked out every so often.

@DewinDwl I don’t think anyone has an issue with Type 2’s, it’s just that the conversation is about people who don’t need them, using CGM’s. Personally I think they should be available for Type 2’s if they want them, anything that makes life easier.

Diabetics of whatever type benefit. People who aren’t diabetic, don’t!

Many type 2's are on insulin so that’s why some of us have them. I was given it by the hospital, it’s not a bit of fun for me. The alarm that goes off as my blood sugar tanks is a godsend as I often don’t feel it happening.

I’m glad you’ve got one @YoongiMarryMe

@YoongiMarryMe

I wasn't referring to T2's. I'm referring to Joe Public using them. Tim Spector used all the data that people submitted to him, in Covid, looked at their health data, info that would've cost him more than £7 million to gain. Used that data to create Zoe.

It's not aimed at helping type 2's. Although it might. It's aimed at selling it to the rest of the public. To quash health anxiety. Like op said : "worried well". It's just money making.

Thanks @Oblomov24 for being so much clearer than I can be at this time on a Sunday morning!

I test before and after meals. I test after a new snack. I have very tight control of my T2 because I do this. My numbers are normal, I have the Hbac1 of a non-diabetic.

You don't seem to appreciate what T2 is like and what the consequences can be if we don't maintain vigilant control. I'd quite like to keep my legs and feet and my eyesight. Also not a fan of nerve damage.

I know that T1 is not a walk in the park and requires a lot of effort in your daily life. Don't piss on T2 as if we can do a baseline of testing and then know how we are travelling. Insomnia, stress, a virus etc etc can all change how our bodies are processing glucose.

DH and I were talking about this a while back after he'd had a conversation at work about the obsession with the Zoe app and the cult status of wearing a patch without a medical need.

In times where poor mental health is already spiralling out of control, enabling people to buy unnecessary medical equipment which gives them something else to stress and obsess over can't be a good thing.

Things like this are only going to get more popular, as people are increasingly being given the option to take preventative health measures. Its a growing industry, that one hopes will ultimately help reduce diseases caused by bad lifestyles.

I thank my lucky stars that I don’t have diabetes so do find it puzzling that someone would choose to wear a continuous monitoring device. I am slightly overweight (BMI 26) but know what I should/could do - there are dozens of steps I would take before even considering needing to wear something permanently on/in my arm.

However, obesity is a huge health issue at a population level and perhaps in the future there will be (or maybe should be?) more emphasis on preventative monitoring?

In terms of non-diabetic people using it for weight loss, it is supported by evidence that keeping a food diary is one of the most reliable approaches for losing weight, simply because you become conscious of what you are actually eating and begin to cut down. I imagine that the monitoring might work in the same way for a lot of those people - increased awareness - but could some of them get the same results from an A5 notebook rather than an expensive and semi-invasive monitoring device?

@OSAP that instagram post was thought provoking. I initially downloaded the Zoe app during Covid but immediately got put off when they began by asking questions about my menstrual cycle - it just felt like too much data was being collected for what was a Covid symptom checker app - and deleted the whole thing before completing the initial questionnaire.

It seems that Tim Spector set up the Zoe company before Covid, but I don’t quite understand why the data doesn’t belong to King’s College if he did this while employed by them.

@ohtowinthelottery I suppose the marketing leads people to believe it’s necessary and will make them feel and look better too.

A programme that suggested more vegetables and less biscuits doesn’t seem as appealing as a magic device that tells you how your body is processing various foods.

I agree that, if you’re that way inclined to start with, that it could easily become quite unhealthy though.

Someone I know, an acquaintance rather than friend, was telling me about it the other day, it’s apparently changed her life as she now knows what she ‘can and cannot eat.’ Obviously I couldn’t ask, or comment, but this lady is very thin. Not slim, thin, and has said before how she’s ’always cold’. She recommended I try it to see if I can lose weight! (This sounds ruder written down than it was in reality!)

@BadSkiingMum I agree completely with your point about an A5 exercise book and food diary!

T1 here. I fully support T2s (and any other person with any other medical need) having them available.

I spent years having to fight for my insulin pump, and now self - fund the sensors that go with it so I can close-loop (we have to budget elsewhere as a household but that £169 per month is worth it for us, as it is literally saving my life). Yes, I know the rules with close-loop are changing, but my CCG isn't there yet.

I do not want anyone who has a genuine medical need to have to fight for this technology too - many people can't afford it, and need it.
T2 diabetics are insulin - resistant. High periods of high blood sugars can result in serious complications (leading to massive amounts of money spent from the NHS). These devices can help T2 keep an eye on their glucose levels (their bodies can't always react to high glucose the same way a non-diabetics can).

However, I don't think the OP started this thread to be a T1 vs. T2 - I don't think the OP is referring to anyone who has a medical reason to use glucose sensors. She is referring to people who don't need them, and then obsess when their fully-working pancreas, non-insulin resistant bodies, are doing exactly what they are meant to be doing!

Also, there are just too many variables with just using a sensor for two weeks as ZOE asks - did you have a meal out in that time? Did you drink? Did you exercise? What was the weather like? Where were you in your menstrual cycle during that time? Did you have a particularly stressful couple of weeks at work? So you eat the exact same things every week on a two-weekly cycle, and do the exact same activities during that time? No? Then you've likely to have wasted your money.

Also ZOE - I signed up to the COVID app in 2020, thinking I was helping track COVID etc. Then I had years of them sending me gimmicky marketing for what ZOE is now (even though I'm not eligible, due to diabetes) - that really pissed me off. The two things are not connected, and yes the researchers etc are the same, but they should have changed the name. Using my data to market the second product - unethical in my opinion. Yes, I did unsubscribe from all their mailings once I realised, but so many people signed up to the COVID app, believing it was for good.

Indeed I didn’t start a T1 vs T2 thread, although it keeps going that way.

I also agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post too.

@OSAP We know someone who previously became too thin due to exercise obsession. They managed to get it back under control, and naturally, weight went back on - maybe a little bit too much. They've recently engaged with the Zoe App and patch, which we think is dangerous for them given past history. At the moment, they are losing weight slowly and sensibly and exercise an acceptable number of times a week, but we worry about what will happen now they are back in the normal BMI range (from only slightly above it).
The Instagram culture around it worries me greatly, particularly for our young people.

Biohacking, for many, is the future, and its not just cgms. It's their body to do as they wish with and their health data to collect as they see fit.