To not want to go for a meal

[HateConflict22]

...and day out with childless sister and partner who I've only just met.

To cut a long story short, me and my sister were estranged for 6 years. During this time she made absolutely no contact with my children, no cards, nothing. My dm felt this was taken out on my dcs, and repeatedly asked my sister to make contact, as she was missing out on seeing them grow. If it was my nieces/nephews I wouldn't do that, but me and my sister are very different people. We went no contact when my oldest child was 2, and my youngest who is now 4 she has never met until now.

A close relative passed away. This brought us back together. She apologised for the awful things she had said at the time, and we got back in touch. Since then we have had them around twice at our home, during the visits they were very awkward with my dcs, and didn't really know what to say to them. I had never met her partner of 4 years until now as well. One of my dc's is on the spectrum, and already gets quite overwhelmed to begin with.

During the second visit of meeting my dc she sort of put me on the spot. She tried to arrange a meal with me, my family, her and partner, and my dm for Mother's day. I said I wouldn't want to do that, as like to spend my mother's day basically being a bit lazy. She reluctantly said okay after abit "I thought it would be nice as you are a mother etc etc." I thought yes, I have been Mother for 6 years, and haven't suggested anything like that before apart from the very first one thay didn't go well. It would be no fun at all for me navigating overwhelmed children etc.

Then a day out and meal was suggested, quiet bookshop etc. This wouldn't suit my dcs at all, and tbh would be far too overwhelming for dc1.

Me and dh both feel this was all far too soon given the situation. We haven't even been over to where they live yet. They can't have dcs, and it feels very much that my sister is trying to fill a 6 year gap in a matter of weeks.

They have a very extravagant lifestyle, no experience with children which is fine. Bit my sister has already asked numerous questions relating to things she hates about her childhood, and were we doing those things with ours. For example "I hate ipads," "children should be visiting museums/national trust/arty places every weekend, I never ate out as a child or had friends over, went to extra curriculum activities, do yours do that."

We feel very much that our parenting is under a spotlight, and that they are moving at far too fast a pace.

What is your view on this?

This.

I think you need to do some soul-searching and decide whether you really want to be back in contact or whether you are still too angry, because at the moment it sounds like you've got a foot in each camp.

You're resentful that she didn't contact your children while you were estranged. To a lot of people this isn't strange at all, she had no access to them while you had no relationship with her and many people would consider it inappropriate and confusing for the children for an estranged relative to send cards etc. If you really want to repair the relationship you will have to let that go.

You resent that she suggests things that may be unsuitable for your children - she doesn't know them, and doesn't have any of her own, so of course she won't always get that right. If you want a better relationship with her you will need to communicate your/your child's needs and find compromises; at the moment you're still so angry that you're interpreting everything she does as evidence that she's horrible and doesn't care about you.

She probably has her own grief and hurt about the estrangement, the time she's lost with her sister's children and not being able to have children herself. She's putting that aside to try to repair things and has apologised. I think you really need to think whether you truly want this reconciliation - you don't have to, you can decide that the damage is too great - but make your mind up and commit to either drawing a line under the past and building a new relationship, or not. Being half-hearted, suspicious and resentful is just going to lead to more hurt.

To cut a long story short, me and my sister were estranged for 6 years. During this time she made absolutely no contact with my children, no cards, nothing.

Black and white thinking. If no contact with DSis this means no contact with her family.

Same with you. V.black and white, DSis can go no contact with me but can’t go no contact. Strong sense of right and wrong - DSis didn’t do what I thought was right, she is wrong.

Since then we have had them around twice at our home, during the visits they were very awkward with my dcs, and didn't really know what to say to them. I had never met her partner of 4 years until now as well. One of my dc's is on the spectrum, and already gets quite overwhelmed to begin

She said she wouldn't be comfortable with this, and wanted to come over with her partner. It almost made me feel like I was being unreasonable about her partner (who I had only met in the hospital acouple of times). I felt my dcs being comfortable was the most important thing

they didn't really seem interested with my dcs, when they were visiting us. My sister's partner didn't speak at all to them, and awkward faint laughed.
My sister seems like she couldn't really be bothered to play with them. My dcs tried to role play with my sister, and she wasn't very interested. It became almost like my dcs were just there in the background.

You say you child gets overwhelmed. Your sis and her partner were overwhelmed but this isn’t ok. Adjustments should be made for your children but (black and white thinking) DSis and her partner should mask and follow social norms.

Above is just two examples, you might think you’re NT but the way you present and the way you talk about your sis you both come across as though your ND.

If you sis has had a lifetime of you dismissing her needs and painting her as the bad guy when she needs help (such as social support) or when she’s overwhelmed and struggles to role play, it’s not surprising she eventually lost her temper with you (aka had a melt down) and then went NC with you

Thank you @Wstpi but alot of what you said wasn't correct. Maybe I didn't explain my posts well, I apologise for that.

Just putting it out there, a lot of people without children can find them a bit awkward to be around at first.

The fake laugh, the refusal to engage in role play "games" and the ignorance of what would be child friendly all seem to be very normal behaviours for some people who have spent very little time around them.

Also not defending DSis, as she was in the wrong originally, but it takes some guts to try to build back a relationship after acting badly. Lesser people would continue NC to save face. But it does seem that DSis is trying to make amends. Even if it feels awkward and stilted right now.

I do agree about the difficulty of nc with dcs etc. She was welcome to contact me at any time, I wouldn't have stopped contact. When I gave birth to my 2nd child I sent picture, name, weight etc. No response.

As for awkwardness, meeting altogether was ds's idea. I suggested to meet without dcs, just her etc. It was refused.

To me this shows her commitment. Even though she feels awkward she is trying to build a relationship.

Also one-on-one might feel very intense for her given your history. Hence why she's trying to involve wider family. Of course, it is up to you whether you accept or decline the invitations etc, but she is trying. And her requests haven't been ridiculously unreasonable that I can see.

You say you child gets overwhelmed. Your sis and her partner were overwhelmed but this isn’t ok. Adjustments should be made for your children but (black and white thinking) DSis and her partner should mask and follow social norms.

It’s Ops responsibility to manage her child’s needs not to manage her DS needs. If DS is overwhelmed she needs to take responsibility for managing that. Also that was about a visit to Ops house. Her child couldn’t leave their home DS could and it was her who wanted to visit with the children present.

Precisely. If her child sees and hears her being discriminatory to other people with similar behaviour, e.g being overwhelmed in social situations, they may internalise this and fear other people will refer to their behaviour in negative ways causing them significant anxiety when they encounter similar situations.

What has op done/said that is discriminatory?

I wouldn't have known how to behave around children until I had my own. Plus your children are strangers to her. Give her a chance.

@adriftinadenofvipers you're very right. I'm doing my best to give ds a chance. We were very close growing up, it all changed as adults which is such a shame. I think i will have to get it together, and set necessary boundaries etc. How ds reacts is something outside of my control. She has had high expectations in the past, but I am hoping things will be more relaxed this time around.

The fact that you call her childless in the first sentence says everything about how you view her. It's not nice at all.

I think alot of my reservation with ds is because of her high expectations of me in the past. For instance if she asked me to come over on a certain day, and I couldn't make that day, and suggested another she would get huffed, and winged to our parents (we were adults in our late 20s). My parents would then tell me "ds is upset etc." If I didn't have the correct coffee in it was an issue, only liked expensive places to eat, quizzing staff etc. It is just the complete opposite to me. As she has got older I am it will be a lot more relaxed. I have a health condition which stress triggers, and have made it clear to ds that this needs to be a no expectations go with the flow scenario. I love ds and I'm hoping more than anything that this works out.

@Bondibeechtree ds doesn't want children, and has made it clear she doesn't. On reflection I should have said without dcs. I think I was a little mad on the parenting comments, sorry that was wrong of me.

Thank you. As someone childless, it's destroys me piece by piece when I see people looked down on for their childless 'status'. You have no idea how hard it is.

It was a red flag to me when ds mentioned one of her staff has put in a formal complaint, about the way she talked to her. The member of staff was in tears, and her partner told her she was being a snob. This came light at the second visit. I hope that things will be better this time. I don't want my dm to stress about her dcs not speaking.

Tbh honest it sounds as if you are defensive and already have very rigid boundaries, and she is pushy and also has rigid boundaries, and everyone is so busy righteously protecting their boundaries that there is little affection or enjoyment of each other's company.

Do either of you actually truly want a closer relationship? Or believe it is possible? Or are you both just trying to please your mother and not be the one who looks difficult?

@Bondibeechtree I can completely understand that, and apologise again. I absolutely would never think that. If anything I always live vicariously through people without children. I love my dcs and wouldn't change them for the world, but I also miss before too. I selfishly want the best of both worlds!! I told ds she has a great life, I can't remember the last time I ate in a nice restaurant, or had a lie in.
I always feel nervous about my parenting being judged as I know my theoretical dcs are sat in the corner reading a book, and never ate chocolate or had screen time. My real dcs are very different! 😂

Give her a break it sounds like she has mh struggles but she's trying and please don't refuse to do things with her if she wants her partner there. She may need that right now.

@Differentstarts great point.

I would do as others have said and meet without the children for the time being as it's always more tricky to chat and catch up when you are keeping an eye on the kids.

Please don't offer up your own mh and the well being of your dc to appease your dsis for your dm's benefit... Learning the word no at her age is fine you know she may be used to getting her own way but your dc's well being overrules that... And it's tough shit of they(dm and dsis) don't like that.

She sounds bossy and she’s trying to push this relationship along too fast and on terms. It also seems to me that she’s starting to be critical about your parenting. Be careful.