Are all teens selfish?

[Underdeniablyexhausted]

Just had an utter blowout with DS (again). He is 18 and lives at home. Works 18 hours per week in a supermarket job in the evenings (3 nights) and pays no rent or expenses - we pay for his phone too. He is doing a summer abroad this summer and then going to University next September.

DH and I both work FT in stressful jobs and have 3 other younger DC (16,14,10). Whilst DS is at home in the day we do leave him some jobs but not many - he has to walk the dogs everyday but often that's it. He would never think to do anything off his own back - for instance if the dishwasher is finished he wouldn't think to unload it, he would just leave his dirty dish on the side. I don't really ask him to do housework as I can't stand the fact that it's generally half a job. I have stopped doing his washing as he couldn't even be bothered to put in his washing basket. I don't clean his room either.

On Saturdays DH and 2 of the DC do the same sport. Often they are at different venues but DH generally coordinates it. DS is very poor at organising himself which will often have a knock on effect. So for instance, he is unreliable at informing us of his fixture which then means DH has to adapt plans or wait around at the last minute.

This morning they are all off playing. DS is playing at a far off venue which requires him to get the train. DH will have to leave an hour early to drop him off in time. We got up early to walk the dog. Get home and DS is still in bed. We're then rushing around trying to get lunches ready, kit etc whilst he just sits there eating his breakfast and watching something on his phone. DH asks him to help. He does nothing but get himself ready. When he comes back down all the jobs are mostly done but he's just stood there listening to music. DH gets angry at him to which he responds loudly and aggressively as if somehow this is unreasonable. It is at this point I lose the plot and I did really shout which is not ideal and I did apologise for that after. I'm just so angry that everything is such hard work. He does not seem to grasp how utterly privileged he is. He is so, so incredibly selfish.

I thought this was a DS thing but my other DC is 16 and is also quite similar. Absolutely no concept of the needs of others.

YANBU - all teens are selfish arses
YABU - your dc are just entitled and selfish

I’m not going to vote because the truth is somewhere in between.
Being selfish is a common teenager trait and most of them will grow out of it as their brain matures but no they are not all like that, some of them are lovely.

This is the crux of your problem:
. "I don't really ask him to do housework as I can't stand the fact that it's generally half a job"

If you've never expected them to help out or do chores up until now, then why do you expect your DC to suddenly start? They had a couple of servants tending to their every whim.

Thoughts and prayers for their future partners...

Why on earth are you bending over backwards running around at crack of dawn to enable an ungrateful and non contributing 18 year old to play his sport? Why would you or DH change your plans because a grown adult can’t notify people doing him a favour about fixtures ahead of time?

Why is he only working part time and why isn’t he contributing at least something financially to his keep? Why the hell are you paying for his phone?!

It’s not unusual for an 18 year old to be inherently selfish. Doesn’t mean you have to sit there and enable it.

AndThatWasNY I ask him to jobs that I know I won't be pissed off if they're done so badly. He gets logs in, mows the lawn, sometimes I'll also ask him to clean the kitchen or hoover and mop but it won't be done to my standard so I have to do it again anyway. I try not to go on about this otherwise it is a constant negative cycle where he thinks I say nothing positive to him and actually he's right. He is a such a lovely person - kind, funny and personable but these traits do not deliver any tangible results which on a day to day basis are the things that matter. He is very lazy but he doesn't believe that he is as he goes to the gym everyday.

Is this his gap year? Why is he not going to uni at 18 and waiting? You can't really complain as you have set the expectations. You should have made it clear that he will be expected to do x,y,z in exchange for free food and board. Why does he only work 3 evenings a week? Can he not work full time and save for uni?

mightydolphin we've always made them all do jobs but none of them would do them voluntarily except for the 16 year old who tidies their room and does their own sheets. The older ones do their own ironing.
They all have to help clean up after dinner. It is so incredibly painful - if they perceive one of them isn't pulling their weight it ends in an argument.

Is he lazy and selfish, or is he lacking executive function?

If he has the skills to manage himself and contribute, then I suggest stepping back and letting him miss his sporting fixture if he isn’t ready, etc!

If he doesn’t have the skills, then you’ll need to scaffold him no matter how old he is.

My teenagers aren’t selfish. My sixteen year old will do things like dishwasher if he sees that they need doing. I don’t do them again because they’re not good enough though - if I did, he would likely not see the point, understandably.

Scottishshortbread11877 that's what he should be doing. He has asked for more shifts at work but there aren't many available. He could easily get something else though.

It is a gap year but that's because he wasn't sure what to do. We have to push every single step of the way. He is motivated to go to uni but he hasn't sorted accommodation yet despite me telling him it needs sorting asap. He is going to have to do a Foundation year too because he was too lazy to work properly for his A-levels. He does know that we will pull the plug on it though if he isn't getting good grades.

I feel like I'm on his back constantly but he doesn't see himself as lazy.

I would start charging him rent then and use the money to employ a cleaner. Advise him this is due to his refusal to contribute to the running of the house.

WaitingForMojo he has some traits of ADHD but he is able to manage the things which have an immediate result - for instance he has no problem organising getting to the gym or driving range with his mates.

I wouldn't be apologising for shouting, sometimes the little gits need it.

If he had turned and was loud and aggressive to me, he'd have been shit out of luck getting to where he needs to be and out of luck on anything else he needed.

Do that a few times and they either learn quickly, or the hard, long way.

Scottishshortbread11877 that has been my threat. He thinks it is totally unread though.

Don't threaten it, just do it. He is living under your house and not contributing. You are the boss, not him. If he doesn't like it he is free to find an alternative set up that suits him better 🤷‍♀️

My DS is 19 now, but was a lazy fecker, dropped out of doing A levels although he wanted to go to university

Anyway I've always told the DCs whenever they are not in education I expect board as I'm not a cash cow. He got himself a job and pays £200 board pm.

I have to let him live his life, he may regret it later on but he can always go back to studying in later life.

Welcome to adulthood mate

1). DS needs to give you his work roster. Then you given him jobs that fit in. If they aren’t done properly, show him next time. And again. But he must do it. He will usually learn eventually.

2). If he isn’t ready for his match on time, go without him. And again. And again. Either he will figure it out or he might always be one of those whose internal life is just so loud that daily life needs a constant shove from someone else. (DCuz has one like this - he is properly excelling in other areas).

Sometimes, now matter how hard you try to be reasonable, teenagers need to be slapped in the face with a wet fish.

But they to tend to be quite selfish with glimpses of what they might be like in ten years time.

I'm assuming your DS learnt to do his laundry when you stopped?

So why can't you leave him to be in charge of his hobby logistics? Set a clear rule that you need to know x days in advance or else he isn't going. Stick to it. I bet he strangely learns to organise himself better. He won't if mummy is always willing to bend to his will.

Make him pay for his phone, he'll likely be more motivated to pick up extra hours. If not, at least you are teaching him about financial responsibility.

If you need him to do chores around the house to a better standard then state that, and say that he won't recieve lifts to his hobby if he doesn't meet the standard.

It doesn't need to be negative all the time. You can balance it out with positive encouragement/interactions. It might take more of an active effort at the beginning but it pays off in the end.

mightydolphin he does do his own laundry. The thing is he doesn't seem to notice if he looks like a bag of shite. If he's going out then he will iron his clothes though so he does care about his appearance.

Ref the sport - DH is heavily involved in the club and DS is a valued team member. It's not so much for him but the team and the club.

I can't vote either. I was a selfish teen. I barely lifted a finger to help out when I was that age and I didn't really consider anybody else much. I did grow up to be the opposite in those ways, so don't despair. My DH was apparently a bit of an arsehole when he was a teen too and he's a lovely adult!
However our DCs are lovely teens and not a bit like how we were. I don't know how that happened!
So some teens are selfish and some teens aren't. But most grow out of it.

Yes, but it's not DH that is letting the team down is it? It's your DS, if he decides not to step up. As long as you tell him in advance then he only has himself to blame.

Voted YABU because you are facilitating this. He’s an adult, not a child, and he only behaves like this because he can. No, not all teens behave like this !

I know this is easier said than done, but your replies suggest that you don’t see your role in this. He won’t change unless he has to, and that won’t happen unless you stop babying him.

I think many are but it's a product of their upbringing as much as their age.

You said you don't ask for help with housework because you can't stand a job half done. Personally I would make him do it again so it is up to standard. I had responsibility for cleaning the bathroom and toilets aged 14 or maybe younger I can't remember. Had to cook sometimes and lay the table/clear the table when not. I also paid rent at 18. My brother was never expected to do this stuff and he's grown into a horrible individual and I've grown into a push over who's taken advantage of in relationships. I'm aiming at something in the middle with my kids.

I’m not sure I understand what the issue was this morning? All your kids are old enough to get themselves up, ready, breakfasted, to do their own lunches and sort their own kit. So if your oldest DC did his own stuff that’s surely fine, everyone else should have done the same? And if they are not doing it start now. Imagine when you have four of them all adults and all doing nothing….

It's a combination of things - my DD was similar and vv stroppy before going to uni - she changed overnight after leaving home. In restrospect i think she was anxious about exams, uni and leaving the nest.
That said you are enabling a fair bit of this. Schedule a chat and have a gentle, supportive chat about expectations, the stress you are under and how you'd like to improve things

I think teens that are allowed to be selfish are selfish.
If they think/know they can get away with it then they will do the minimum amount possible.
The problem starts well before they become teens though, if they haven't 'been in training' throughout their childhood to take on more responsibility the battle is pretty much lost by the time they are hormone fuelled teenagers!!