Are they giving me a hard time at work because I'm female ?

[idunnoif]

I work in the male dominated tech sector.

I'm in a senior role in the sales organisation.

I have two young children. I'm only mentioning that, because I've been in the field tor over 10 years at various companies and I haven't met another mother/ woman doing my role before.

Women in the sales organisation part tend to work in slightly less impactful roles.

I'm in the highest / most important role and also the most difficult/ the most high pressured one.

When I was in lower down roles, I didn't feel it as much but I feel like I have to bend over backwards at my current company to command any respect at all.

I was told yesterday I was under confident because I asked at the end of explaining something if that now makes sense ? I had explained something previously and the VP said I had contradicted myself - but I hadn't. He had misunderstood, so I explained it again and wanted to confirm he'd understood what I was saying the second time. I've heard men asking if ' it makes sense ? ' after every second sentence. I wonder if he's ever picked up on them doing that ?

I see getting the sale done as a team effort and I am quite new at this company and product and openly ask questions to learn more and do a better job on my deals. This has also worked against me as I keep being told I'm under confident. I now no longer feel I can ask anyone anything. Or even run a situation by anyone.

It's not unusual to talk your deals stuff through with people and my colleagues who are all male, also do this. They have so many meetings for support on what they're working on. It's a part of the process entirely to do this.

I'm getting quite frustrated that even a small ' does that make sense now ? ' has been flagged as being under confident. I'm fed up and feel rubbish.

Any thoughts ?

Hard to say without more context and knowledge of your team dynamic BUT in my experience, in toxic workplaces any opportunity will be found to undermine you and your confidence.

Its like posters on here trying to get you to second guess yourself and trip you up.

Is there are lot of politics where you are, that’s another issue.

oh, and rather ask if there are any questions, not if you’re making sense.

What @Betterbuckleupbarbara said.
And I don't think yabu. Can you look for another role?
In the meantime, I would point out their inconsistencies

I'm really not enjoying it and feeling really down about myself, every day.

Obviously we're not there but I think if your gut is telling you you're being treated differently, you probably are.

Just a small thing but what I was taught in teacher training was not to ask "Do you understand (now)?" or "Any questions?" but "What questions do you have?" Puts the onus back on them.

Very good advice thank you.

I just think it's unhealthy to be in a job where you feel unsafe and crap about yourself all the time.

Surely that's not right.

It’s hard to say but maybe your tone comes across as being uncertain of what you’re saying? E.g. ‘does that make sense’ could be seen as you not trusting yourself.
I think you stand out and they’re going to complain about you being in that position whatever.
I assume you work by building alliances and that’s easier at a lower level.
You could ask for leadership courses but also beware that they could be waiting for you to slip up - bullying up is a problem. If you were more assertive then you could be targeted for that too.
If you’re not happy there I’d look for another job with a better culture whilst you still have the confidence to do so.

Sounds like every man for himself there, literally, so if you can’t beat em join em, I suppose.

You’ll either have to go in with a take no prisoners approach or get out asap, the market is a bit fucked right now, so may have to ignore the noise from these vultures, and focus on finding something else.

Sounds like an exhausting place to work, if they are going to be picking at you, and you will need to document things, you can take it to HR as this behaviour can actually be bullying if it’s not to support and develop you.

Have a look at your company values too, that may help you identify whether this behaviour is in line with what company culture is supposed to be - this is a platitude by the way, but if you see positive words and co-workers are behaving in contradiction this is also a flag about the culture, fuck all you can do most of the time.

All easier said that done if you work in a shitty culture, but figure out first if there are ingrained behaviours or if the person/ particular team is just a prick/full of pricks - you will usually have several pricks in any given workplace, that is a given.

It doesn’t matter whether you’re under-confident or not (though from your post, it sounds as if you are now), what matters is that you are perceived to be.

Stop saying ‘if that makes sense’, which suggests your explanation may not be clear or adequate. As a pp suggested, say ‘What questions do you have?’ Ask fewer questions, or choose who you’re asking more carefully.

And yes, it’s absolutely sexist, but gendered socialisation means that the way you communicate is perceived to be less confident.

Or find a job somewhere less misogynistic.

I think it absolutely sounds sexist.

I’d say that they aren’t used to the way women talk - it’s different to men but it’s not up to YOU to change to the ‘style’ of a man.

Honestly, whenever someone says ‘does that make sense’ or ‘am I making sense’ it does come across as low confidence. At least to me. And I rarely hear men say it.

I do think some of this will be due to you being a woman. Both directly and indirectly. Women (generally) tend to be more collaborative. Often in male dominated environments, it’s seen as softness, lack of confidence and etc. So you are judged for that. Obviously some men lead collaboratively and listen to their team. But in my experience it’s more likely to be women because of how women are conditioned.

Then there is the fact that you are a woman in a senior role. We always have to work harder to prove ourselves. Well most of the time. A man gets a job and people assume he can’t do it. Women get senior jobs and they have to show they can.

I can only tell you how I worked through this.

I work in a male dominated industry and I know a lot of the men thought I was soft and a bit of a wet blanket. The men can be very emotional driven. But their emotions surface as anger, frustration, raised voices etc. I refuse to engage with that sort of thing.

Over the last 5 years, they have all either had to be challenged by me over their performance, processes, work quality. And I now have the 3 of the most respected teams in the company. 98% of my staff are women. I have the lowest attrition in the company and more of my staff have been promoted. And I have just been promoted.

They learned that actually, how I lead works. And how being a good leader and looking after your team doesn’t mean you are a pushover with no confidence.

We actually have a new CEO and we met the other week, with other female leaders and discussed sexism in our work place. He rightly said that the men in the company were vocal and pushy. He recommended we start being a bit of the same. I pointed out that to ‘act like the men’ would be to be a poorer leader, a poorer performer and a poorer employee. I told him we looked for equality, not to become men. But to be seen for our talent, ability to get the job done, for our knowledge and skill. Like the men are. He immediately apologised and acknowledged he was wrong. We are now working on improving the situation. CEO accepts, he still believes he might have unconscious bias but is working on it. There’s low level sexism even in organisations actively trying to fight it. It’s only since we did this, that I realised how bad it was.

But the advantage is that, now I have proved myself, I have more ability to change it.

You could try an experiment for a week or two. Everything you say and do, frame it as a confident assumption. Not asking, just assuming, even if you don't feel it. 'Does that make sense?' puts the blame on you as if you didn't explain it clearly. Even if the men in the team do it too, if there really is sexism at play you'll be undermined for doing the same as them.

I'm currently dealing with a dickhead man who seems to have an attitude that because he's said something, that's it, the matter is closed. Even if he's completely wrong and I point it out, he'll confidently say the first thing that comes into his head that is 1) vaguely plausible to the uninitiated and 2) fits the position he's arguing at the time. Said position is subject to a complete 180 when he's backed into a corner though and he'll fight that opposite argument equally as hard

I know it's not the same, but I sympathise, as I feel he thinks he can just override me because he's a man. But it must work for him on some level as people blindly go along with what he says, and I've actually learned a thing or two about how arrogance confidence can carry you through, even if you don't feel it!

I stopped reading when you said “ i have the highest and most important role”
in any successful organisation everyone is important . Maybe your self righteousness puts people off

It could be sexism. Could also be that you're in a more senior role so they don't expect you to have to run things by others as much ?

I mean it's probably the sexism but just offering an alternative.

And @Alwaystransforming post is brilliant.

It’s not right. But, things don’t change on their own.

You absolutely need to do what’s best for you. You can either stay, prove yourself and then fight it. You shouldn’t have to prove yourself and fight it. But that’s not the world we live in.

Or you can go and find something better for yourself.

Neither option is right or wrong. I ended up staying and fighting it because I was used to it and didn’t really realise how bad it was until I recounted all the examples in one go. Now it’s an easier fight. So I am taking it up. But because I am in a position to and I am not leaving a job and teams I love. But it’s not the right choice for everyone at every point in their lives.

I didn't mean it like that at all. I just meant it's the most high impact role in the sales organisation. We get judged the hardest and have the hardest job in the sense that we can be fired very easily when we don't perform.

@idunnoif I didn’t read it as self important btw, I read it as you’re carrying a lot of responsibility and are stressed by it. Ignore the noise 😊

'Does that make sense?' Is a perfectly normal ask when you've explained something and demonstrates effective communication skills. It sounds to me that they've heared that and feel undermind by a woman explaining something to them. Massive red flags here. It sounds as though its not a good cultural fit and I would doubt if you'll be able to thrive there.

For context, I work in a traditionally male dominant industry in a relatively senior role in sales - the imbalance is slowly being corrected but it does mean a lot of the women are younger (think 30s 40s) than the men in top positions (40s 50+). I ask that all the time and do not get criticised as lacking confident. Quite the opposite, my male boss supports me growing my network and helps me build my profile within the organisation. Its the difference between treating your colleagues as purely competition or as part of the same team driving for success.

There are better places to work . Lifes too short for this shit - find somewhere you can fly.

I don’t agree with the people saying you should never use phrases like “does that make sense?” I use that all the time in scenarios where I’m trying to tease information out of people, and having the confidence to be the person being “taught” about something, when I actually know more about it than them, is a very useful skill in my job. Not only that, it’s one I’ve observed male colleagues fail to do because they can’t leave their ego behind, so focus on telling people what they know, rather than finding out anything new. I am better at the job than they are, because I don’t need to do that.

“Masculine” attributes and approaches aren’t always better, and aping them isn’t always the way forward. Especially in jobs where being able to listen and empathise are important- and anything that involves negotiation- like Sales- comes under that category.

I'm very much a relationship builder type person.

I like to connect with people and I'm genuinely curious about others and even with my customers , I thrive on building relationships. I don't force it or anything, if they don't wish to do it.

I've been told my biggest attributes are my authenticity and vulnerability recently. Make of that what you will.

Maybe it's just not the role for me. I'm starting to think I'm not cut out for it.

It's not the role. It's the company culture. I'd look for a new job elsewhere.

Sounds like the job is actively undermining your confidence, which is crap. Time to dust off that cv…….

Right OP look. I am a Senior Director in Sales at a tech firm too. A global SW company.

Yes ask if there are any questions.

But this is a culture issue so please don't think this is you, it's not. If you don't feel supported and confident then shame on them.

Please don't think this role is not for you, I have been a lone parent for 14 years and worked for 3 different vendors and never felt that way.

I'd look at moving and when you do in interviews ask what % are women, what % of new hires were women, this will tell you all you need to know if they know the answers to that.

Thanks for your comment. Your view is especially helpful as we are in the same industry.

I've worked for many vendors too and this hasn't been my experience before. The sales support functions support you usually, they don't pick holes in you for asking questions.

It's so bad here that the SE team won't really make time for me in their diaries, whereas they will for my male colleagues. When I request their time, it's like the Spanish Inquisition, whereas they always seem tied up with my male colleagues who don't face the Spanish Inquisition when they ask the SE's for support.

We do have formal processes in place for requesting support, however they bypass this for the male colleagues and give me a hard time, even when I'm actually following our process.

They never give me ANY credit for my work and shit their pants when male colleagues make strides in deals. I have this one deal and my SE colleague said that I was just lucky to have been there at the right time to get it. Another male colleague presented a deal himself yesterday and said that it was just the right time and that's why things are progressing quickly. The same guy was like ' no it's not just luck in your case, you did XYZ right and therefore it's professing '. It's a very similar situation and in mine I was told I was just lucky. I was so angry and sad.

This week I've also had to be quite assertive with my SE colleagues, as they were really confusing the customer. They hate it when I'm assertive with them and then treat me extra badly afterwards. It's like if I'm not assertive I'm weak and when I do hold them to account, I'm a bitch and I can feel they make things harder for me afterwards.