A stranger threatened to "shoot" me today when I was with my child. was I being unreasonable to call 999?

[BlackFriYay]

I was on my way to collect DC from school, toddler was with me on reins. The seats were full so we went upstairs where there was only a few seats left, next to other passengers.

I sat on the nearest one and put toddler on my knee, I didn't pay any attention to who I was sitting next to as i was sitting sideways with my feet in the aisle and my back to the person occupying the window seat. Toddler was squirming a bit and wanted to get down so as soon as another double seat became available we moved across there.

A man sitting in the area we moved from started playing loud music through his phone, some daft parody song on repeat.

As our stop approached I got up, lifted the little one and was walking towards the stairs, past the strange bloke with the music. As I passed him he said not to ever sit next to him again or he'll shoot me in the face. Confused as hell, I looked up as we got to the stairs to see if he was talking to me and he was. He then said "oh is that a woman?" IE me, then added "never mind I'm still going to do it" whilst making shot gun gestures toward me.

I couldn't get down the stairs quick enough and tried to tell the driver what had happened but he could barely hear me through the plastic. I didn't want a scene I just wanted to get as far away from the prick as I could.

In a panic I called 999 which I'm not sure was the right thing to do or not, perhaps 101 would have been more appropriate. They've made an appointment to come and see me at home on Tuesday which is the earliest appointment they have.

I asked whether they're going to make any attempt to look for the man as he seems dangerous threatening lone women with children. They said they'd circulate his description and If any officers see him they will talk to him?!

Do you think that is sufficient? Am I blowing this way out of proportion?

I felt so, so vulnerable and scared but they don't seem to think it's anything major.

But people actually have guns in America and gun violence is a massive problem there. In the UK gun culture and gun violence isn’t a problem to that extent. Guns are still relatively rare in the UK, police officers are armed with tasers, your average criminal uses a kitchen knife etc guns are not freely accessible as they are in America so it’s more an empty threat here vs actual threat in USA

Jesus, people arguing about whether it meets the legal definition of threats to kill versus public order offence. Who the fuck cares?! 🙄 Let the police sort that bit out. Regardless of the legal definition of which offence was committed, what matters is that It was fucking unacceptable and threatening behaviour for a woman and her small child to be on the receiving end of, and hugely terrifying for the OP. Her question was was she right to report this, and the answer is ABSOLUTELY yes!! Anyone who thinks otherwise is part of the problem in my opinion.

Finally, a modicum of sense

YANBU
He's a Trollope, a weirdo and a missfit.

You don't know him so you don't know his intentions so yeah you did the right thing by dialling 999, especially as you had you child with you.

You did nothing wrong, you did nothing to deserve this so let the police find him and he can deal with the consequences.

Half an hour ago you were certain that “no offence had been committed”, so which is it?

OK I don't know where you live or the bus company involved however I do know the bus companies I frequently use (in Ireland) all have CCTV that is generally kept for 30 days (unless specifically requested). So before Tuesday and the police visit, get onto the bus company. Tell them the day, time bus number/route, direction of travel, where you got off etc (the more info the better to get the correct cctv) and get them to save it. Explain the police are visiting you Tuesday and you want them to be able to access it.

I disagree. If he was unstable enough to make such a threat with zero provocation, it’s entirely reasonable to worry he would carry it out. OP was worried enough to leave the bus immediately and call the police which would support this. It may be downgraded to a public order offence to avoid argument, but I think it fits the S16. Either way he’s committed an offence and she was absolutely correct to report it.

@Naptrappedmummy
Totally agree with you.

There wasn’t a threat to kill though

For this to be actionable the threat needs to be explicit. A off hand ‘shoot in the face’ comment isn’t enough unfortunately to be considered an active threat to kill.

Also you need to be able to prove it was believable. If he didn’t have a gun for example it’s just an empty threat and that’s it

Whichever one makes him/her look most knowledgable in the moment while berating the OP, I expect.

Here's the contact details for the company that runs the 75 -

But not never. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/may/10/ukcrime.sarahhall

What do you think @HelloMiss ?

Awful experience. I would probably have wrongly, looked him in the eye and said 'Excuse me?' Wouldn't have helped. Hope you're OK now OP.

Of course it is, that’s literally what a threat to kill is.

You don’t need to substantiate it by carrying a weapon or making a threatening move toward the victim. It just needs to be such that the victim took the threat seriously, ie it wasn’t a joke or made in jest.

If he did have a gun he would be up for possession of a firearm, which is so serious he would be looking at a long stretch in custody and the threat would be the least of his worries.

Urghhhh the 75! Not surprised.

some busses just seem to attract more cunts to them, this being one of them.

British Transport Police don’t cover buses. And the method you suggested was unclear and may well not be available on the bus network which does not have constant real time tracking of all buses due to topography, poor equipment maintenance and a reliance on cellphone technology.

I like you would have dialled 999
Also email bus company with all the details
He may have been ‘harmless’ but at least you’ve done the right thing by reporting it
He could do more damage next time he feels like threatening a person
We should not turn blind eyes to incidents like this
I’m shocked you have to wait until Tuesday for police but then I’m probably niaive.

victim took the threat seriously, ie it wasn’t a joke or made in jest.

You’re misunderstanding this but. It’s not that they have to believe the threat was not a joke but the intent for the victim to fear it would be carried out. Again, man saying if you sit next to me again doing pointy fingers isn’t a credible threat to kill. However, it is a public order offence and I’m glad the police are taking it seriously.

"Every town, every bus route....there's always a nutter like this"

Not sure about that TBH, this sounds quite extreme, sounds like a London thing maybe? If you made threats like that on a bus in Edinburgh or Glasgow you would be going home in an ambulance.

Your right I’m getting confused.

That’s how often I’ve had to report crimes on public fransport in London

Personally, I think calling 999 was a bit OTT, but completely understand that, at the time, this would've been a reasonable response. Unfortunately, I don't think there will be an awful lot the police can do. Theoretically, this man has broken the law in expressing a "threat to kill", but given the circumstances, I doubt they will put much effort into tracking him down.

Now that the initial shock and adrenaline has worn off, do you truly believe that this man will make any attempt to find you and carry out his threat?

A threat by one member of the public against another is a public order offence. Threatening in and of itself is an offence.

In this case, significant violence was threatened and the threat was made in the presence of a child. These are both higher culpability factors if the man were to be prosecuted. Lesser culpability factors include mental illness or learning disability.

Effect on the victim falls into three categories. It's clear from the OP that the effect on her was serious distress (as opposed to medium or low/ no effect).

There's no difference between shooting her in the face and killing her.

If prosecuted, he could get anything between a community order and seven years, with all the circumstances taken into account to determine the tariff.

How do you know OP didn't fear it might be carried out? Unless I've missed that, she hasn't categorically said she knew she was not at risk from the man? Who are you or the police for that matter to determine how OP felt about the credibility of the threat?

First thing I want to say is what a horrible and disturbing thing to happen and I hope you are feeling a little less upset now. Second thing, yes I would have reported but as others have said I would have gone via 101. For all you know this man may already be known to the police and even if he is not he should be on their radar in case his behaviour escalates. Bus may have CCTV recording of the incident and if so, hopefully the police will check it out