Spending downsizing cash

[CueilleLeJour]

I'm really not sure if I'm being unreasonable here.

Mum is 87 and downsized a few years after we lost my dad. She bought a nice little flat and had £150K from the sale.

Growing up, we never had much money and dad kept a close hand on the purse strings. Mum was left with a comfortable but not huge pension, and some moderate savings which she has spent over the last few years.

Since downsizing, she has basically had access to more free money than she's ever had in her life. In the last year, she's spent nearly half the £150k. Mostly on the flat - new kitchen, bathroom, carpets, furniture, professional decorating etc - but also an expensive holiday. It's clearly been an amazing feeling for her to have all the money she could dream of and spend it without my dad's disapproving eye peering over her shoulder. Part of me thinks it's great and she should just enjoy it while she can.

But part of me is really alarmed at her getting through half the proceeds in a year, and I worry about possible future care needs. My BIL's mum is 90 and has been in a care home for 3 years and it's just burning cash. They wouldn't let her in without proving she had 2 years of costs up front - which I think was about 140K.

My mum is just convinced she won't ever need a care home, and I know she's better off than many people who have nothing put by. It's also really none of my business, it's her money to do what she wants with. It's not dementia or anything, just someone who has never really had to make financial decisions having a whale of a time splashing the cash.

But am I right to have a little anxiety about it all?

YABU You only live once, she's right to spend it while she can
YANBU It's a bit reckless to spend half your downsizing profits in the first year

You’re right. The unusual spending referred to in the link is converting money into high value assets like diamonds and if you’ve always had numerous holidays it’s not unusual spending, it’s entirely normal for you.

If she depletes all her savings she still has an asset in her flat, she will also be entitled to attendance allowance and presumably she has a pension. She doesn't have to do without so she has more.

That's not true - if they are assessed as needing care it's gets paid for if after means testing they have less than the minimum threshold, Now , if you are saying that they've not assessed or have assessed and say no care needed and the family are saying well yes she does and paying privately then that's different.

My godparents spent a lot of money on their house when they retired and had access to lump sums, their thinking on it was that they wouldn't need to do anything more to the house in their lifetime and they could enjoy their retirement in the house exactly the way they wanted it, so I don't think the fact that half the money has gone necessarily sets a trend for future spending.

But I do think you should try and enjoy the time you have with your mum while she's can, without worrying too much about the future, it's hard because of the experiences you've already had, but she may never need a care home so if she's still got the value of a property behind her I wouldn't worry about the surplus amount that she has for now.

My mum died fairly suddenly in her early sixties and she'd worked so hard as a single parent for many years for us, scrimping and saving with a plan to sell her house and enjoy the money her hard work had built.. in the end, her house sale completed around 3 months prior to her death but she was too ill to enjoy it at that point.

However it's not fine to keep frittering a limited pot of money away on nonsense, if it's going to leave her in a difficult position later on.

She can fritter whatever she wants away on having a decent life. No one knows the future and to not have a life for 20yrs 'just in case' is nonsense. She will have a property to sell should she need to and pension/attendance allowance to live on. That's a perfectly normal scenario.

She might never need care, she might need it for the next 10yrs, or she could die next week. No one can, or should be living their life based on 'what if' scenarios.

Yep. And if she’s competent it’s entirely her decision whether to “fritter” her money away.

stepping in and controlling what a competent adult spends out of their own money is financial abuse. Even if you think you are doing it for their benefit.

as long as their bills are paid anything else is their decision to fritter or not.

if your dh said to you oh you can’t fritter all your money on shoes, clothes and holidays any more, you need to save for your future. What would your response be?

Absolutely no suggestion of me stepping in or trying to control her spending in any way. As I made very clear in my OP.

If I spent half our joint available cash in a year, I'd expect my husband to have an opinion on it. I think it could be quite irresponsible to do that if I didn't know there was an equivalent amount coming through in the future.

If my mum only lives another year, spending her money quite fast will have been the correct decision and I would have no regrets for her at all.

If she lives another 10 years and some of them in ill health, not so much.

But the overwhelming view on here is live for the day and let your family or the state provide for any extreme care needs.

And it is very true we don't know what the future holds. So I will try to enjoy her enjoyment of her spending, and will try to ignore that little bit of anxiety about whether this is prudent!

FWIW…

But the overwhelming view on here is live for the day and let your family or the state provide for any extreme care needs.

I’d take this with a grain of salt.

Is this advice coming from people who have first hand knowledge of the realities of late in life care? Are they people who don’t have have a pot to piss in today? Are they people who believe the good lord/Karma/or tooth fairy will provide?

I feel like sometimes it’s a moral failing here to plan for the future and dare I say it use your means to better your situation.

I’m by no means a miser who sleeps on a mattress of money while eating gruel and acorns for my meals. (The opposite really… I spend probably too much on travel at the moment) But I have seen people who haven’t had options and living in places that you wouldn’t wish on your worst enemy.

Talk to her and ask her what her plans are…help her with resources so she can make informed decisions about her now spending and her future care spending

My perspective comes from my parents’ lives; they lived to be 97 and 99. They were both very healthy almost to the end and only needed professional care for the last 18 months. Dad was in a care home for five weeks, Mum for seven months, they had care at home for about a year.

He was a saver and held the purse strings. They had some holidays but he wouldn’t spend anything on the house. The kitchen was literally falling to bits, the bathroom was avocado with a cracked basin, the carpets were swirly 1970s jobs - you get the picture. When he died I discovered he had a jaw dropping amount of money invested.

I spent some of it on refurbishing the house in order to sell it. New windows, external doors, kitchen, bathroom, redecorated and recarpeted throughout. When it was ready to go on the market I sat in that house and cried. My mum would have loved the changes I made and never saw them, with all that money in the bank.

That’s why I believe in enjoying money.

What a grasping peron you seem to be, clearly wanting your Ma to leave all to you in her will. Good for her let her enjoy HER money. You will probably inherit her home.

🤣🤣🤣 bollocks

Reading isn’t your strong suit is it?

Indeed. A classic case of not RTFT.

My mother is in her eighties, has a fair bit less than this woman’s £70k in savings & always encouraging her to go on holiday. £70k is a drop in the ocean when it comes to care home fees -about 18months of fees. Life is for living as long as you can and at 87, there’s not likely to be a lot of active life left. If she ends up as one of minority of people who needs residential care in the future, she can sell her refurbished flat to fund it. Plus she has a comfortable pension. Children can never be forced to pay for their parents’ care.

I think if she was mid 70s I’d be more concerned she’d run out of funds. At late 80s you are on borrowed time and I think it’s fantastic she’s making the most of that money having holidays and making her home as comfortable as she can. I suspect she’ll slow down now that she has her flat as she likes. She still has the property to sell should she need a care home.

If your mum doesn't spend it … a care home will. Let her enjoy the money :-)

YABU... It's her money, she's scrimped and had to be cautious for all those years so good for her!
My mum passed away at 86 and it was only the last few years of her life that she started spending too, she had also never had much spare cash so when she finally did, I persuaded her to spend it!!
Yes, she needed care in the last few years, but I gave her that 'challenging' care as you describe it gladly.
Instead of watching her finances, make the most of seeing her enjoy herself, and IF the time comes where she needs your care, give it.

After lovely memories of nice holidays and a lovely home, nice memories, I could cope better if put in a care home. She'll have memories to sustain her.

My ex husband's mother was like that, she never had much money for what she wanted. The last few years of her life she was a widow and had her first foreign holidays, bought nice things for her home. Good luck to her I say.

Did you do 24 hour dementia care for two years? I've seen what that looks like and challenging didn't touch the sides.

My mum had Dementia, so trust me, I know first hand the difficulties involved.
It was hard trust me, but i made it work because that's what we do.
Both my Mum & Dad's passing and my lovely Mil and Fil's were dreadful ways to die in the end but I'm glad I was there for them.
If they'd have needed residential care, I would've found a way for that too.
All I'm saying is let her enjoy what is hers to spend, no-one has a right to judge what she is spending.

The local authority don't pay. We all pay.

Pedants’ corner’s that way 👉🏻

I completely get this. Not 100% same but grew up in a BAD way. Mum had addiction issues which is where all our money went. Dad left when we were 4- 5 years old. We never had anything and growing up I managed to break the cycle. Mum got clean when children where born and we ended up moving her as house was in poor state! She downside round the corner from us and was left with a nice savings pot. Retired and had private pensions. We moved and she did too once again to be close for grandchildren. Our worry is the same. She is careless now but once again it’s the addictive streak within. What we have learnt is that any care that may be needed in the future ALL assets get a block on by care homes bank. So property and credit/debit cards. However long a person is in care (who has financial assets) it’s not deducted until the person has passed. So with my mum of care is needed, the care home “block all assets” and if she stays there however long they Talley up how much is owed and then once accounts have been deducted the property is marketed and fees are paid then any profit is paid to care home. Anything left is substituted I believe by social care. I wouldn’t worry as if the property has been redone as in kitchen bathroom ect. These will not need to be re-done for years/years so now after the holiday you may notice a decline in spending. May be worth while she has savings to ensure a funeral plan is in place and paid for so there won’t be any out of pocket expenses if everything does go.

Sounds like the last thing she needs is to have you tell her how to spend her cash after a lifetime of not being allowed to do what she wanted with it. You could perhaps suggest she speaks to a financial adviser about where to best place what she’s got but aside from that I’d leave her at it.