To be irritated by this £100k a year whiner

[Viviennemary]

On Question Time tonight they were talking about subsidised childcare and the new benefits for younger children. Then a woman came on with a boo hoo sad face and said she wouldn't be getting it. So I think Fiona Bruce said because your income is £100k a year plus Then she said that it wasnt fair as there was only one wage. And their household only had one earner.

Well tough. Folk on just over £12k a year are paying tax and this cheeky woman thinks her child care should be subsidised. It made me mad.

Yes I was wondering if some of the figures quoted referred to things such as pension tax relief.

Perhaps we could all agree that working whilst being a parent is fucking difficult.

The benefit of the scandi childcare schemes, I believe, is that everyone can access them regardless of income. Surely that is the way to be going and also the way to ensure a more equitable start in life for all children?

@Gymnoob

She's talking about tax free childcare, and free hours,

Say 15 free hours average over the year, its one 'free' day a week. Say that nursery costs £90 a day, this is a benefit equivalent to £4,590 a year.

Then the tax free childcare is £2,000 a year.

So for one child (in principle) the 'loss' could be £6,590 - which pre tax over £100k is >£15k of earnings.

[*worth noting I don't know anyone actually getting a value equivalent to a full day for their free hours, so this could be a lot lower in practice].

@gymnoob is the 30 funded hours and tax free, plus child benefit that is not accessible. So a chunk.

I think @Justpontificating has gone some way to responding to the question I raised.

@gymnoob sorry posted too early ..a chunk that is massively area dependent ref pricing. What does it even matter really? Why wouldn't we all support equal access to early years of education? It's not the kids fault is it and why should they miss out based on what their parents earn/can afford. We need to stop all this race to the bottom shit. It's really harmful and gets in the way of a healthy society.

Glad to see the majority opting for YABU. Single income families are penalised on many levels. Its a matter of basic arithmetic, a couple jointly earning a specific sum are entitled to perks that a single earner on the same sum isn't. Its discriminatory.

Thankyou. Finally some sense!

So max you lose 6.5k. I’m not buying the conversion to pre tax because we could all do some reach calculations and say we lose x amount by not working and living on benefits.

Yes, this is exactly what is happening and I cynically feel it is a distraction from those that could a bit more but for some reason can't survive without multi-million, billion incomes.

Totally agree with this . I haven’t watched question time yet but I suspect that was the issue the person was trying to raise. But even if not it’s still something that needs to be looked at.

Why do you think these investors are falling over themselves to invest in childcare? It's because they know they're going to make a killing when the time is right.

Lollllllll where?! They're closing left, right and centre, and there are no spaces anywhere!

The government are never going to fund providers properly, no matter what schemes they come up with to win parents votes.

Everything is structured in favour of the rich, how is this a surprise to you? It's the inevitable consequence of capitalism. Even when you attempt to address those consequences https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2022/feb/02/levelling-up-funding-inequality-exposed-by-guardian-research

The wealthy still benefit.

As for tax breaks not being a subsidy. Of course they are, it's shifting the burden of funding government revenue from one group to another. For example, the welfare cuts from the first 10 years of this government being used for cutting taxes.

You might want to rethink your idea that businesses create jobs, they don't, demand creates jobs. https://truthout.org/articles/businesses-do-not-create-jobs/

The conversion to pre-tax is important because you also attract a 60% tax rate on £100-125k.

So you have to earn even more to break even vs. being on 99k, as the tax rate is so high.

Most people aren't also paying a 60%+ tax rate.

2000 a month after mortgage?

That's very comfortable.

Lone parents or those with a lone wage are disadvantaged by both childcare ceilings and child benefits ceilings, it pisses me off as one! I don't need the childcare, but losing child benefit when earning just little more than two parents earning £25k each does annoy me, especially as they get the 12k tax relief on both incomes and I get it on one!!!

You sound a tad pompous, to be frank. There is a bit more to poverty and low skilled jobs than you seem to understand.
Good job we have these no- hopers to stack our shelves and clean our toilets, eh

Where did I say anything or even make reference to being ‘surprised’ how the economy is structured in favour of the rich.?

@CountAlmaviva was asking about PP figures quoted.
Article offered as proof answered nothing of the kind
@Justpontificating has responded
if there were no businesses no one would have a job…..fact! Obviously!

You are missing the point. It's the lack of critical thinking in this country which has allowed successive governments to get away with murder.

Rightly so. It's totally unjustifiable, which is why people who don't want to admit it's a problem tend to start bullshitting about sympathy and entitlement instead.

Child benefit and child care should be universal as cheaper to administer. Even if you are a high earner having a child is still a big hit. That way people who pay in do get a payout rather than just subsidising others. Instead money should come from income and wealth taxes

Did you deliberately misinterpret the post you commented on? The spirit of the post is clear.

Well you don’t provide mine. Last month I received £530 from Universal Credit and my monthly childcare bill is £1040.

So, again, you’re wrong.

Yes, again don't know if are already well aware of this, if you own lots of assets and you own commercial enterprises, the employees ending up paying you as you can higher your prices with offer a meagre raise in wages so in real terms the person whose only income is from their job has lost out. If you are renting a property like many are and will remain doing for the rest of their lives, you will be at the whim of rent rises.

It annoys me that people who are not working (in Scotland) are being offered free childcare for 2 year olds whilst those that actually need the childcare aren’t provided with any support.

It is really not complicated. 30 free hours in London can be as much as £600 savings a month (more in some nurseries) + no child benefit (not sure what that is - £150 per kid may be). Over a 2 year period for 2 kids is easily circa £20k.

But some of you are right - high earners can go earn more. But ends up happening is you promote a society where they look out for themselves only. The state pot should benefit all and childcare is a particular pinch point for many.

In any case, the Treasury cares about losing out on their high-earning labour and taxes so hopefully it will be fixed soon.