Job Share response to hol request

[Stargazer75]

I'm fairly new to my jobshare with another lady (I've been there 1 year). She's older, single and no DC.
She loves her cruises and goes on around 3 a year, I cover the days she is absent.

As yet, she hasn't booked any days off this year, but as I have a husband, grandchild, elderly Mum etc, occasionally I book things in advance as have a busy life outside of work.

The other day I asked my jobshare if she could please cover 2 days for me in September as I would like to book annual leave.

She went all red in the face and said 'I just don't know if I'll be available, I don't know when I'm going on my cruises yet'. I could tell she was very annoyed at me asking! She asked if I needed to actually book something such as travel or accommodation etc? I don't personally think its any of her business what I plan to do on annual leave and I think 7 months notice is pretty decent. In the end, in a huff, she just said 'well, you may as well go ahead and book then and I'll let you know closer to'.

My DH needs to book his annual leave to coincide - and we were hoping to visit friends in London who would also book annual leave, but obviously if she changes her mind closer to it will mess everything up 😬

I guess she's pretty much saying 'I'll cover if I don't book a cruise' in effect saying her holiday plans trump mine (unless I'm getting it wrong)

I put my holiday form in to HR, but how would you address this going forward?

I'm not just going to sit back each year, wait for her to book the days she wants, then have the crumbs that are left.

Anyone else jobshare and how do you navigate?

Abitboring · Today 18:19

Wow OP you really are a bit up your own arse. You have no idea who she might want to consider. It doesn't have to be a husband or grandma. Single people have a social life too and not having family comes with it's own challenges. It doesn't make your situation more important.

Who knows why she hasn't booked a cruise yet. Maybe she actually needs to consider someone or something and therefore hasnt. I'd honestly be put out if someone wanted me to commit to something for them 7 months in advance.

Have you asked when she might decide? Perhaps it would be soon? Unbelievable that you wanted an answer from her there and then. You actually gave her no time to consider.

My, what charm school did you go to? You need to go back!

OP has given plenty of notice. It's TWO DAYS. Hardly a hardship to give those 2 days a swerve when booking her cruises! OP has informed her colleague, who has nothing booked. Your problem is?

Get it booked @Stargazer75 and ignore the nasty brigade. I never heard of a jobsharer having to cover their partner's leave. That's just silly.

Abitboring · Today 18:21

But OP doesn't know that. She just assumes it because there is no husband, grandma or whoever. All it suggests that the colleagues commitments are less important which they really are not.

I imagine the OP knows what commitments her colleague had. She never said there was a hierarchy of commitments. You are just arguing for the sake of it.

I'd be honestly put out if someone didn't think it was appropriate for me to plan my AL well in advance, because I had commitments and they didn't like to plan in advance, but expected me to cover them at short notice for their AL knowing I need to plan things in advance.

If the colleague doesn't deem it appropriate then she clearly doesn't have the same level of planning ahead needed or responsibilities, or she would be doing the same with OP in regards to her own AL, or would understand that when you have responsibilities, you do plan in advance. If she DID have the level of commitments you seem to think, she would also need advance notice to cover these commitments while covering OPs work, would she not?
Kinda makes your sanctimonious little rant about being "up her own arse" "who knows her commitments" look silly doesn't it.

Sure. Because people without their own kids may still have kids in their life they might want to spend time with during school holidays and therefore take hols then.

It's also massively annoying if you are expected not to take hols during school hols (that's six weeks during the height of summer or around Christmas) because of other peoples kids. I don't know how this is that much more flexible if you have to plan your life around other people's kids you actually have nothing to do with.

Wow you are really projecting. This is a lady without kids, who likes to take cruises three times a year. She may WELL have kids in her life. She may well want to take holidays during the summer school holidays. No one is saying she can't. I really cannot see your problem. If she wants to take her holiday during the school holidays, no one has said she can't.

I did a job share for 2 years and we never covered each other during annual leave. On my days off the three other colleagues in my team covered me, the same when one of them was off and needed cover.

The same when she was off, I still did my days and hers were covered otherwise.

No, I don't think that. The colleague might have a friend to consider or a dog sitter and has therefore not yet decided. It doesn't make it any more or less of a commitment. It's just how her life is. Not more or less important than the OPs commitment.

I really take issue with the wording along the lines of 'no kids, no commitment'. People with kids don't know what life without is like and vice versa.

Abitboring · Today 18:31

Sure. Because people without their own kids may still have kids in their life they might want to spend time with during school holidays and therefore take hols then.

It's also massively annoying if you are expected not to take hols during school hols (that's six weeks during the height of summer or around Christmas) because of other peoples kids. I don't know how this is that much more flexible if you have to plan your life around other people's kids you actually have nothing to do with.

I imagine if this was the case the OP would probably know. Nobody can take 6 weeks' leave in the summer. All employees need to get a fair shot at when they take their leave.

You've really got a bee in your bonnet here!

First come first served. I work for a small org where two of us can't have time off at same time. Hes a childless 26yo, I'm
A 30 sth mum with two kids and one spends half the summer break with her dad so I'm limited as to when I can get leave with both kids, but he booked the time first so I need to suck it up as he got there first. It's not about our status- I'm senior- but I've already booked the weeks I need for 2025. Most cruises are year round so can't see why it matters if she goes last 2 weeks of Aug, first two weeks of Sep or last two weeks of Sep as an example

No, I don't think that. The colleague might have a friend to consider or a dog sitter and has therefore not yet decided.

But why should OP have to wait until she’s decided? If nothing’s planned, her colleague can just choose an alternative date - same as OP would have to if her colleague had already booked the leave.

Abitboring · Today 18:35

No, I don't think that. The colleague might have a friend to consider or a dog sitter and has therefore not yet decided. It doesn't make it any more or less of a commitment. It's just how her life is. Not more or less important than the OPs commitment.

I really take issue with the wording along the lines of 'no kids, no commitment'. People with kids don't know what life without is like and vice versa.

What a crock!! Well it's tough shit this time. The OP has her leave booking in.

People with kids absolutely know what life without kids is like ffs! We weren't fucking born with children!! The "vice versa" I can get on board with!

That doesn't make any sense. What do you think happens in a full-time reception job? Does the person in it never get any leave? And what happens if they're off sick?

So, just to be clear, you think that the OP should only be allowed to book holidays after this woman decides when her cruises are? In what world does that make sense?

OP to be honest if I were you I would just say the same to her when she books her cruise - “hmm yeah sorry not sure I can commit to that” and I would do it every single time unless her attitude changes.

The whole single/no kids thing is a red herring. Neither of your holidays take precedence so if she isn’t willing to come and go with you then you have to stop doing it for her.

Legally your employers have you give you the minimum annual leave or the part time equivalent of whatever full time employees give it they provide leave on top of the minimum.

Let's say you do 12 hours a week in total over your 1.5 days, that would mean you'd be entitled to 67.2 hours annual leave per year as a minimum. Your employer can ask you to use this for bank holidays if you don't work those.

Do you get that much leave in a year OP?

You can put your actual figures in here: https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-holiday-entitlement/y/hours-worked-per-week

OP doesn't need to. She can follow procedures and if there arent any she can do what she likes.

OP was banging on about kids, mums and commitments though and even though she said the colleagues circumstances are not any less important she couldn't help pointing out how they were different as if they weren't as valid.

No, you don't. If you have kids at 30 you don't know what life without kids is like at 40.

If you have an issue with someone NEEDING to book their annual leave I advance because you don't need to, you level of commitment is not the same. You can't say it is. That's kinda why annual leave is available to book in advance for the whole year, because most people can't leave things until a week or two before. Something like a dog sitter or boarding kennels, would normally be booked months in advance too (my friend owns a boarding kennel and she is fully booked for a few weeks in summer already and has been since November)
In my family, we help each other with care commitments and childcare and we plan amongst ourselves months in advance to make sure someone is available to help and our commitment to them is booked into the diary and this matches up with annual leave, appointments, important events etc.
Leaving it to the last minute just isn't viable.

If you can't appreciate why people need to book in advance, you simply don't have the same level of responaibilities and commitments.

Abitboring · Today 18:45

OP was banging on about kids, mums and commitments though and even though she said the colleagues circumstances are not any less important she couldn't help pointing out how they were different as if they weren't as valid.

How rude you are! The OP wasn't "banging on" about anything, just explaining her own circumstances which are perfectly valid and of concern to her. Not once did she say that she should have priority. I wonder how much notice the OP gets of the 3 cruises...

The actual entitlement of the woman is staggering! Why the hell should the OP have to plan her leave around her colleague? Madness!

?NHS. We share a 12 person 24/7 rota, 3 people can be off on A/L, everyone else's shifts are moved round to cover the shifts on a "voluntary" basis. If they are paying you for the overtime and including a percentage as holiday pay it's fine. Ours is shown as WTE on our pay slip as it also includes shift allowance.

What you are basically being asked to do is work overtime around each other, so your contract is X hours plus Y hours of overtime.

The interesting thing would be what HR do if you refuse the overtime, we can refuse shift swaps or OT but the reality is we don't. Usually if we can't cover it management will pick it up.

No, I don't think that. I think the OP could have reconsidered. She could have said 'well, I need to know by next Tuesday' or at least give the colleague a moment to consider herself.

But I feel the OP wasn't asking the colleague, she was telling the colleague and then couldn't deal with the colleagues reaction and came on MN to ask how unreasonable the colleague is. The fact that the colleagues was annoyed maybe suggests there is a reason they can't make up their mind yet. That's still not the OPs problem but I'd probably open my mind a bit to other peoples circumstances you may not know as much about as you think and go back and have a conversation.

This. This makes no sense..surely there will be times when you are both off. Its not reasonable to assume this post will be covered 100% of the time..you are totally different people..this is going to cause a lot of resentment and isn't realistic..there needs to be some middle ground. Even if you are on holiday Mon to Wed and your job share does the Thurs and Fri the work will be managed if not all of it..

Well @Everythinggreen my cat sitter wouldn't commit 7 months in advance as she has a personal life too plus two jobs. See how many people there would be to consider in that chain?

I can understand why people plan 7 months in advance. But I don't understand why you would put a colleague on the spot with 7 months notice and expect an immediate yes or no. It can all be talked about and the OP could set a nice boundary and say 'I will book it in next Tuesday if I don't hear anything from you'.

Basically OP - you need to stop talking to your job share about this and start talking to your line manager - “I would like to book AL in 7 months time, but xxx can’t confirm if she can cover my time off. Am I able to confirm my leave request with you and then you sort the cover? Me sorting my own cover isn’t working anymore. I need to book time off in advance and xxx can only confirm if she can do cover last minute. There needs to be a different system that works for all of us.”

I don't understand this.

I job-shared for almost five years in one company and there was no expectation that we would work additional days to cover each other's allocated days when one of us was on holiday.

We simply avoided if possible to take holidays at the same time.

Also the reason I worked part-time was that I had other commitments the rest of the week so would not have been free to do do additional days anyway.

Surely it is the same thing when a full time employee goes on holiday: it is not dependent on someone else stepping in to provide cover.

Employees are allowed to take their holiday entitlement without having first to organise cover...

Why do you need to discuss your plans with your colleague at all? Just get your application in when you know what dates you want. Presumably there is some kind of shared calendar where staff can check which dates are available and which are already spoken for. If your manager is saying 'sort it out between yourselves' she is failing to do the basic job of a manager, which is to make decisions, including potentially unpopular ones.