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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

National Trust visit spoilt by overzealous staff or AIBU?

415 replies

Sunshineismyfavourite · 20/02/2024 21:16

Visited a beautiful NT country house today. Huge 17th century house with Capability Brown landscaped parkland. The house has lots of art by Van Dyck - one of my favourite artists and I was really looking forward to spending a couple of hours with DH wandering around in the beautiful spaces enjoying the peace and quiet. However, every time I stopped to look at a painting one of the staff would come up to me and start talking. This happened several times in every room we wandered into. I totally get the enthusiasm and expertise of the staff but I wasn't really interested in hearing about the Civil War etc., I just wanted to enjoy the paintings in peace. We do visit NT properties occasionally but have never found this to be a problem before.
The staff just seemed to be unable to read my body language as I was trying to walk away or indicate that I didn't want to talk or listen to them by not responding or engaging with them. Short of telling them to shut up it was impossible.
It was a very quiet day with not many visitors so they were probably bored but it was way too much for us.
AIBU by being a miserable bugger (I know I'm quite unsociable at times) or should I be allowed to wander round in peace? Perhaps they should give out 'don't talk to me' badges with the tickets if you want to be left in peace!

OP posts:
Flamme · 21/02/2024 09:31

Mistralli · 20/02/2024 22:03

You don't need a policy to use your common sense about letting someone stash a pushchair out of rain. I don't expect to be allowed to push it around - I expect them to be able to identify a suitable place to put it.

Most employees with customer service training would go out if their way to help. These volunteers stand there and flap, before inventing policies as to why your common sense suggestion is something they can't allow. That's what I object to.

Well, no, the problem is that unless they have a specific storage area there's a danger someone else will fall over the pushchair. It'll then be the fault of the volunteer who allowed it to be left there.

catmothertes1 · 21/02/2024 09:36

Alicewinn · 21/02/2024 08:46

That’s happened to me before, they’re really bored volunteers

Or they are the type of person who just loves for others to listen to them and likes to feel important.

Aethelthryth · 21/02/2024 09:38

I have found this problem even worse in non-NT houses, still owned by the family, because the unwanted information about basic history comes with an extra dollop of Uriah-Heeping about His Lordship and when the volunteer was last talking to Her Ladyship, coupled with additional family + royalty photos on the piano. Hatfield House was particularly dreadful: we would have liked to stay longer and look more carefully but ended up fleeing from room to room to escape the volunteers. The best volunteers say "Hello, do let me know if you have any questions" then just shut up.

Alicewinn · 21/02/2024 09:38

fleurneige · 21/02/2024 09:14

Well think about it t'other way round. This person isi giving time freely and has taken more time to be trained, to learn about the place and the artefacts, furniture, history, and has done lots of reading about it on top. And is passionate about the place. To me that doesn't mean that they are 'bored' - but because they so love the place, are prepared to give their time and share knowledge. If you spend 1 day a week standing around- I am sure you'd rather feel that you were of some use and could help, than ... being bored.

Just be polite and say thank you, and quietly say you enjoy visiting with your own thoughts. No need to be so rude.

And sorry, NT would not survive if it had to employ staff to cover all the sites and houses.

Yes you’re right, It’s wonderful they volunteer, but I wish they were just read the room properly & be sensitive . Sometimes people just need that quiet reflective space they don’t want to be bombarded with yet more information

Elphame · 21/02/2024 09:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I have done this! Whilst being pestered by hawkers abroad, DP and I dropped into Welsh feeling pretty confident that our stalkers would assume we didn't speak English and would leave us alone.

It worked - mostly!

SparklyOwls · 21/02/2024 09:44

This reminds me when we went to a place with a toddler. The woman just would not stop talking about the history even though I couldn't hear a word of it as toddler wanted to run everywhere.

In the end I snapped and said "we're not interested in all this history, we just want to look around".

AtomicBlondeRose · 21/02/2024 09:46

Aethelthryth · 21/02/2024 09:38

I have found this problem even worse in non-NT houses, still owned by the family, because the unwanted information about basic history comes with an extra dollop of Uriah-Heeping about His Lordship and when the volunteer was last talking to Her Ladyship, coupled with additional family + royalty photos on the piano. Hatfield House was particularly dreadful: we would have liked to stay longer and look more carefully but ended up fleeing from room to room to escape the volunteers. The best volunteers say "Hello, do let me know if you have any questions" then just shut up.

Haha I had this at a local (not particularly distinguished) country house. They only let you go round on a guided tour and the woman leading it was the most obsequious “Sir X loves this!” type as if they were bosom friends. The best bit was when a man on the tour, admiring some elaborately carved doors, asked what they were made from (eg mahogany or oak) and she peered at them and then said definitively “it’s some sort of wood”. 😂😂

Also later went on a long diversion about the life of an ancestor, which was pretty interesting, but largely due to the glaringly obvious fact that said ancestor was gay, and this was never referred to.

LenaLamont · 21/02/2024 09:49

I think @GoodOldEmmaNess ’s idea is stone cold genius! I love learning from the volunteers, other people loathe it. Each property’s badge could be different, and they could do a roaring trade.

Where it’s been a topic/artist I’m knowledgeable about, I say “yes, thank you, I have studied xxx myself and have come for a bit of quiet reflection on their work” and find the volunteers leave me to it good-naturedly.

With others, I say “it’s ok, I’m frequent visitor, but thank you” and that works too.

But with new (to me) places, I love the stories and details and human interest.

As to the (mostly older) volunteers - I don’t think most are showing off or desperately lonely. They are honestly interested in the place and its treasures and they want to share that passion with others.

My favourite story from a volunteer guide was that she was walking home after her shift and she saw someone picking blossom from one of the prize specimens in the ancient fruit orchard.
“I went striding up to him, guns blazing, ready to give him a good telling off, when I saw one of The Family’s dogs loping towards him. He turned and I realised it was his Lordship himself. He said ‘with all this blossom, I’ve hope for a good fruiting year, don’t you think?’ And I must have looked so red in the face because he asked me to sit down and we talked about the gardens for a few minutes, and I think I got away without him knowing I was about to shout at the man in his own home.”

DeliciouslyDecadent · 21/02/2024 09:51

I am very reluctant to set foot in any NT place as they are too woke.

I think it was terrible how they forced volunteers to support various directives on gender and sexuality.

They are losing a lot of members because of this and their approaches to various things.

Quizine · 21/02/2024 09:53

It may have been said before, but if this happens I usually say, oh thanks for that information, is it ok if I (we) look around first on our own, and get back to you if we have any questions?

Or, feign deafness or being hard of hearing (which I genuinely am, wear aids in each ear) - Oh thanks, I am deaf... do you have any leaflets I can use on my way round? NO, oh that's ok I'll find some information on my phone here. Thanks.

Polite strategies.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 21/02/2024 09:53

There’s one near me where one of the volunteer room stewards (with lanyard) is actually the owner’s mother and previous lady of the house who planted the gardens and embroidered some of the amazing cushions around the place.

Caffeineislife · 21/02/2024 09:54

I have insight on this as used to work in museum education and worked with many volunteers. They are told to interact with the visitors. Some managers are hotter on this than others and if a hot on interaction manager is on then the volunteers are generally more likely to jump on people. On a busy day this is easy to do as there are lots of people and you get people who want to interact and ask questions. On quiet days it's harder and as there are not so many visitors they end up trying to engage every visitor. Unfortunately many mooch in peace types also prefer the quiet days and often get jumped on by volunteers. Getting some volunteers to read the room re interactions is very very hard work.

IME historic properties attract certain personality of volunteer, the enthusiast, the lonely with interest in history, the interested in history, the looking for experience in historic properties in order to get a hen's teeth job in heritage and the ones on work experience.

The ones who are looking for experience are generally the best at letting people mooch, they tend to be younger in general and are generally socially aware. But can be frustrating as they are not so great at engaging visitors (especially the school work experience ones), some are brilliant at it (the ones who applied for the work experience themselves) and others are there because they were placed by the school.

The lonely with interest in history and those who are interested in history are a mixed bunch, some are socially aware and really good at letting people come to them. Others are very very overeager for any kind of social interaction and think just because you are in a historic property you must want to hear about all the details. These ones usually start well but tend to go on a bit but will get the hint eventually.

The enthusiasts are the worst, both to train and to encounter when visiting historic properties. They are often the most likely volunteers you encounter. They are brilliant in some respects because they know near enough everything about the room/ house/ grounds/ time period. When people write in the comment cards about knowledgeable guides these are usually the volunteers they have spoken to. They take the interact with visitors to the extreme. They are the most likely to follow you round the house, go on and on. Take you on random tours, take 3 hours to do a standard 40 minute tour. Many of them have a spiel and will recite it at you without taking any social cues on. They usually show up nearly every day and really enjoy sharing their extensive knowledge. Some visitors really love them, others find them very hard to navigate. I personally have found these types of volunteers are great for the history group bus tours (especially if the history group is focused on the time period/ significant person of the property) and the pensioner bus tours where they don't have an onward destination. They are not so great for the school groups and bus tours where they only have a 3 hour stop and need to get lunch in that time too.

@Mistralli the no pushchairs in ticket area, foyer thing is about fire hazards and clear escape routes. It's also likely that if someone sees your pushchair in the foyer and they have a pushchair they will either plonk their pushchair next to it in the way or insist theirs also joins. It becomes very tricky to manage. Do not underestimate the levels of bad pushchair parking. Pushchairs outside is easier. It's the same for motorised mobility scooters. What I would suggest is in the comment forms or after visiting emailing to suggest under cover pushchair and mobility scooter parking. Its not something on many property managers radar as most property managers are able bodied and have older or no children so don't think about pushchairs or mobility scooters, wheelchairs are different as it's a legal requirement to be accessible.Our venue introduced lockable pushchair parking after lots of comments.

SabrinaThwaite · 21/02/2024 09:56

I like the “three facts rule” posted by someone above. I’ve worked with volunteers at historic sites and, whilst the majority are knowledgeable and good with people, there’s always the odd one that’s a bit of a nightmare to manage.

When I’m on duty I do the “is there anything you’d like to ask about?” or point out a couple of specific / unique things that visitors wouldn’t notice otherwise.

FloofyBird · 21/02/2024 09:58

Yanbu. We got a hard sell for tickets that would allow us access elsewhere as well. I said no as it wasn't beneficial for us,they went on and on, insisted on doing the maths in front of us to prove themselves right until I had to say we have disabled Dc(s), use carers tickets and we're never sure which Dc will be with us on any given day. They then redid the maths again and realised I was right. I was not polite when I said 'I know thanks!' at the end of the saga. I was most annoyed I had to 'out' my present child's hidden disability just to make them back off.

Quizine · 21/02/2024 10:00

Another thing to consider is having leaving the guide to sit somewhere prominent with a huge AMA sign beside them 😄

Zepherine · 21/02/2024 10:03

Caffeineislife · 21/02/2024 09:54

I have insight on this as used to work in museum education and worked with many volunteers. They are told to interact with the visitors. Some managers are hotter on this than others and if a hot on interaction manager is on then the volunteers are generally more likely to jump on people. On a busy day this is easy to do as there are lots of people and you get people who want to interact and ask questions. On quiet days it's harder and as there are not so many visitors they end up trying to engage every visitor. Unfortunately many mooch in peace types also prefer the quiet days and often get jumped on by volunteers. Getting some volunteers to read the room re interactions is very very hard work.

IME historic properties attract certain personality of volunteer, the enthusiast, the lonely with interest in history, the interested in history, the looking for experience in historic properties in order to get a hen's teeth job in heritage and the ones on work experience.

The ones who are looking for experience are generally the best at letting people mooch, they tend to be younger in general and are generally socially aware. But can be frustrating as they are not so great at engaging visitors (especially the school work experience ones), some are brilliant at it (the ones who applied for the work experience themselves) and others are there because they were placed by the school.

The lonely with interest in history and those who are interested in history are a mixed bunch, some are socially aware and really good at letting people come to them. Others are very very overeager for any kind of social interaction and think just because you are in a historic property you must want to hear about all the details. These ones usually start well but tend to go on a bit but will get the hint eventually.

The enthusiasts are the worst, both to train and to encounter when visiting historic properties. They are often the most likely volunteers you encounter. They are brilliant in some respects because they know near enough everything about the room/ house/ grounds/ time period. When people write in the comment cards about knowledgeable guides these are usually the volunteers they have spoken to. They take the interact with visitors to the extreme. They are the most likely to follow you round the house, go on and on. Take you on random tours, take 3 hours to do a standard 40 minute tour. Many of them have a spiel and will recite it at you without taking any social cues on. They usually show up nearly every day and really enjoy sharing their extensive knowledge. Some visitors really love them, others find them very hard to navigate. I personally have found these types of volunteers are great for the history group bus tours (especially if the history group is focused on the time period/ significant person of the property) and the pensioner bus tours where they don't have an onward destination. They are not so great for the school groups and bus tours where they only have a 3 hour stop and need to get lunch in that time too.

@Mistralli the no pushchairs in ticket area, foyer thing is about fire hazards and clear escape routes. It's also likely that if someone sees your pushchair in the foyer and they have a pushchair they will either plonk their pushchair next to it in the way or insist theirs also joins. It becomes very tricky to manage. Do not underestimate the levels of bad pushchair parking. Pushchairs outside is easier. It's the same for motorised mobility scooters. What I would suggest is in the comment forms or after visiting emailing to suggest under cover pushchair and mobility scooter parking. Its not something on many property managers radar as most property managers are able bodied and have older or no children so don't think about pushchairs or mobility scooters, wheelchairs are different as it's a legal requirement to be accessible.Our venue introduced lockable pushchair parking after lots of comments.

Edited

You have reminded me of the overly long tour. I rarely do tours because of this. You nearly always get one member of the tour who asks endless particular questions at each and every thing and the volunteer unable to shut them up and move the group along. I have escaped more tours than those I have finished.

SpamhappyTootsie · 21/02/2024 10:09

The varied enthusiasm of volunteers adds to the visits for me, but I appreciate too much attentiveness could be unwelcome to some.
DS always hated it when people made a beeline for him when he was little, brandishing Trail sheets and trying to elicit joy. He did like the man who opened a “secret cupboard” and let him try on some armour and brandish a double-handed bastard sword though Grin.
We visited a property last Oct where dogs weren’t allowed inside - no problem, we took it in turns to go round while the other got steadily more pissed wet through in the grounds. Naturally, it had the chattiest guides I’ve ever encountered and I had to say “I’m really sorry, I’d love to chat more about this but my husband is outside with the dog” while hand waving in the direction of the foul weather through the window. They did suggest we tie her up in the kitchen garden and both take our time in the property…..errrr, no thanks!

Haydenn · 21/02/2024 10:09

CurlewKate · 21/02/2024 08:38

Amazing amount of ageism and snobbery on here!

It is not ageist to recognise that the majority of National Trust volunteers are of retirement age. It is something that the national trust itself has long acknowledged, as well as their continued struggle to attract younger volunteers.

It is also not ageist to recognise that the reason many volunteers enjoy the role is because when they are retired volunteering provides weeks with structure, interest and opportunities for social interaction.

mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork · 21/02/2024 10:13

Obimumkinobi · 21/02/2024 00:43

The only way to escape being cornered and blasted with facts about 17th Century ceramics against your will is to get a selfless friend to pretend they are going to sit on an old chair with a passive aggressively placed teasel on it. You have approximately 30 seconds from when the siren goes off and all NT volunteers are obliged to stop "mid fact" to run and form a Trutex clad ring around the offender. You can't help your friend now, all you can do is leggit to the cafe a raise a cream scone to the fallen. Its what they would have wanted.

I can't believe that I am (I think) only the second person to say what a great post this is. Thank you!

chaosmaker · 21/02/2024 10:18

I'd have to tell them they are ruining my enjoyment and I came for peace and to take it all in in my own time. You are the highly paying customer after all.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 21/02/2024 10:19

What seems ageist to me is not indeed the recognition that many volunteers are older and are appreciative of some structure in their lives and some social interaction, but rather that they alone are getting something out of their presence at the venue.

Charlize43 · 21/02/2024 10:19

Sunshineismyfavourite · 20/02/2024 21:16

Visited a beautiful NT country house today. Huge 17th century house with Capability Brown landscaped parkland. The house has lots of art by Van Dyck - one of my favourite artists and I was really looking forward to spending a couple of hours with DH wandering around in the beautiful spaces enjoying the peace and quiet. However, every time I stopped to look at a painting one of the staff would come up to me and start talking. This happened several times in every room we wandered into. I totally get the enthusiasm and expertise of the staff but I wasn't really interested in hearing about the Civil War etc., I just wanted to enjoy the paintings in peace. We do visit NT properties occasionally but have never found this to be a problem before.
The staff just seemed to be unable to read my body language as I was trying to walk away or indicate that I didn't want to talk or listen to them by not responding or engaging with them. Short of telling them to shut up it was impossible.
It was a very quiet day with not many visitors so they were probably bored but it was way too much for us.
AIBU by being a miserable bugger (I know I'm quite unsociable at times) or should I be allowed to wander round in peace? Perhaps they should give out 'don't talk to me' badges with the tickets if you want to be left in peace!

I wonder why you were unable to say something like: 'Thank you for your time but I'd just like to go around by myself. Thank you.' ?

Having done this type of job in the past, I can tell you that staff are specifically trained to engage with visitors and interaction is very much part of their job. It's no easy feat to research and read up and memorise information so that you can enrich a visitor's experience rather than have them go blindly around, not knowing exactly what they are looking at. For the short time I did this work, I found working in this environment extremely rewarding and interesting as the collection I was working with was often visited by foreign museum curators and historians and it was often through the interaction, I'd end up learning a great deal of information on objects, everything from the techniques used to create them, the socio-historical context, artists biography, etc. It was a really rich experience.

TheFifthTellytubby · 21/02/2024 10:21

I don't think I ever heard the expression "use your words" before about a year ago, and not sure I've even seen it outside MN. I'm sure the usual phrase was something like "speak up for yourself" or similar....

SpamhappyTootsie · 21/02/2024 10:22

The teasel thing made me laugh, so true! We visited a privately owned stately home where you were allowed to sit on all the furniture and encouraged to feel the Gillow legs etc. our guide specifically said “No teasels or ropes here!”

I like to try and get round our nearest NT house in the ‘wrong’ direction. We have a sweepstake as to how far we’ll get Grin Obviously don’t do it when it’s busy but out of season, c’mon, let me drift about at my own pace!

KimberleyClark · 21/02/2024 10:26

PennysLane · 20/02/2024 21:36

Wear headphones. With no music. People leave you alone. It’s awesome.

Or get the audio guide, you don’t have to switch it on!

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