to want to take child out of the school?

[urwildquoter24]

My DS2 is 13 and in Year 8. He has been excluded many times from his school, for many different reasons. He has been excluded again today, this time permanently and they are sending him this time to their sister school, about 35 minutes away from our house.

Am I being unreasonable to want to find another school?

@Shivermetimbers13

Exactly. There was a thread a few days ago where the OP was considering buying her despicably behaved daughter a horse! About half of posters diagnosed her with SEND without hesitation or thought for the consequences and victims of her actions. It's apparently blasphemy to suggest that occasionally, just every so often, perhaps, maybe, possibly SEND might be used as a {middle class} excuse for shitty behaviour and lack of academic ability.

Never mind about another school it sounds like you need to sort out his behaviour.
This is your responsibility as a parent and no one elses

How is it helpful to the child to pile the pressure on the OP and make her feel inadequate and alone? Does anyone parent well in that situation? Maybe pointing out support for her, as a parent, would actually be helpful?

What a lovely supportive post for a struggling parent looking for advice…

You have no idea what could have cause this behaviour: domestic violence? Childhood trauma? Mental health issues or so many other possibilities that aren’t the fault of the OP.

Why the need to be so presumptuous, thoughtless and mean?

Many schools swap students that have been excluded.

It means that the student gets a fresh new start and away from any bad influences but allows the schools to share information easier.

I have no doubt SEN is over diagnosed and overstated.
But I also know that a lot of bad behaviour is SEN....sometimes inbuilt things you are born with and sometimes SEN behaviours that are learnt over time and cannot be unlearnt easily.

Selling vapes is not a classic indicator of SEN though is it?...its not impulsive or lashing out, its not about poor communication. Its a choice and criminal.

But what sort of child might choose to do that?

A child that was disengaged from their learning because they can’t access it?

A child that struggles with peer relationships?

A child that has poor impulse control?

A child that doesn’t see a future following the conventional path and therefore thinks they have nothing to lose?

All sounds like SEN to me.

The reasons for poor behaviour are complex. You have listed some of them but not all. Family relationships and socialisation are also part of the picture.

Have SEN does not negate poor decision making.

You should take the managed move, it's the opportunity for a fresh start-I'd be making clear to him that this is realistically his last chance as if it fails and he ends up with a permanent exclusion then his opportunities are drastically reduced and he'll most likely end up in a Pru. Not ideal at Y8.
By all means attempt to find another school for him but with his exclusion record it's unlikely many will be willing to accommodate him.
Wether or not he does have undiagnosed issues, it would seem that his current school can't meet his needs. It is unfair on other students and the staff who he is making up stories about to pretend otherwise.

@cansu
They are. And none of us on here know why the OP’s DS is exhibiting the behaviours he is exhibiting, yet many are very quick to lay into the OP about them, rather than considering society’s role both in possibly causing the behaviours in question and in helping the OP and the OP’s DS move forward from here.

A child who has made malicious and false allegations against a member of staff. Sorry, but that is an untenable position for a student to remain in a school in the first place.

Actions have consequences, and according to the op, they’ve had plenty of chances to negate this move/potential PEx. At what point does one child's action stop overriding the education of the other 29 nine in a class?

I didn’t say he should stay in the class and disrupt it. He should be getting his needs met in a setting that can do that. This one quite clearly can’t.

Exactly

@urwildquoter24 'And also, I'm trying to tell him to save his stories for English, not for the real world and to almost get teachers into trouble!'
I can't quite believe you actually said this OP.
Almost get teachers into trouble??? More like, if there wasn't good evidence to refute the allegations, the teacher would have been suspended from duty, damaging their reputation, their employability in the future and potentially endangering their mental health. That's not 'trouble', that's a life changing stigma hanging over them.

False allegations against staff are treated very seriously as the OP has found out. But a year 8 boy wouldnt grasp the impact proven false allegations will have on his reputation, I doubt that he would ever be viewed the same way by teachers again at his present school. As a duty of care to staff I expect the head informed all staff never to be on their own with him. It's malicious lying and is something adults lose jobs over.
I do hope he has learnt something from this experience. He is really at a crossroads right now he has time to change and still have a normal school experience, or he can pick door 2 and end up in a PRU where he will have a much more limited experience. And good or bad it will mark him as different, it's a delicate time for him.

Why is it needs? It’s poor decision making and poor behaviour. You cannot blame SEN for bad behaviour because it rarely is. The majority of the time, it does, unfortunately, come down to parenting.

This feels a bit harsh for someone trying to help.

EHCPs are not issued lightly and sometimes a move to secondary makes 'not too bad' symptoms in primary become suddenly very obvious, when the demands of the curriculum push children beyond what they can cope with.

Shouldn't you be looking at this from the point of view of the school and your son is quite rightly labelled the agitator in proceedings?? Rather than your poor son who has been excluded against the odds. It won't help him in the long run to let him get away with this shit.

OK, thanks for your help and advice.

I think my option is to go along with the managed move and see what happens with that. If things get worse and he ends up in PRU, then we'll cross that bridge if and when we get there.

The school are trying to get him tested again for ADHD, because now it seems really likely he does have some sort of SEN needs, which we don't want to be neglected.

But then there is another girl at the school who is quite similar to him; and she has no SEN needs, which I can't understand...

If you know a shop is selling vapes to your son, then you need to report it. In our area we have shops selling to young girls who are wearing skimpy clothes, including DD. School found out and called the police (as they were worried about grooming) who spoke to DD. They were brilliant. We've been so worried about it. They now have enough to investigate and will also talk to the council licensing people too. There people selling them to kids are exposing them to other things.

don't worry about anyone else's child. You don't know anything about them, you will never have more than a fraction of the story, and even that is likely to be second hand, and inaccurate. Just worry about your own child.

How well do you know this girl? Unless you know/are related, you would not be aware of another child’s needs.

Below, I'm not criticising you, just a general musing given that I have a long background of working in education.

I am with other PP’s - SEN needs can be linked to poor behaviour, however to be true to children with SEN needs, not in every case. It is poor form to jump to ‘ must be SEN’.
If all poor behaviour ( and a steep rise) is SEN related then we have a huge issue.
Why so many SEN needs? And are they all SEN needs.
Poor curriculum? Children starting school without basic needs met and unable to manage independently and socially. Children with less accountability at home (rules are a shock in school), disastrous home background ( inconsistent adults, drugs and alcohol), peer pressure, social media, inactivity and screen time (including parents time taken) etc etc etc. Some of our children lead such difficult lives (increasingly) .

Even with an SEN need, there is an expectation, responsibility and accountability. SEN needs are not a ‘get out of jail free card’. In my experience SEN needs means everyone involved, including parents have to work that bit harder to understand and to consistently meet needs.

You are well within your rights to apply to a different school. But you will probably find that they don't want him.

I'd take the managed move as the olive branch it is. It WILL be your sons final chance before permanent exclusion. After permanent exclusion, schools don't give a shit what happens to the kid. Not their problem. The best you'll be able to get is a PRU, and they have ALL SORTS.

You're probably better off spending your time trying to pick apart what the issue with your boy is, and probably seeking therapies for him. Multiple exclusions by 13 is not normal for the average 13yo boy.

Whether he has ADHD or not you need to get help for your parenting.

I now know a few people with ADHD, and while some of the adults had a rocky start they all hold down responsible and even on some cases what society considers very good jobs.

See if you area has can Early Help/Intervention and ask about parenting courses. That way you can know what is "normal" plus have other parents to interact with.