to want to take child out of the school?

[urwildquoter24]

My DS2 is 13 and in Year 8. He has been excluded many times from his school, for many different reasons. He has been excluded again today, this time permanently and they are sending him this time to their sister school, about 35 minutes away from our house.

Am I being unreasonable to want to find another school?

Where has the OP said her son has SEN?

I agree with pps @urwildquoter24 Unless you are able to HE, then if he doesn't take the managed move, you're looking at possibly a PRU. Kids get excluded from them too in severely disruptive cases. One of our ex students was.

Presumably you're getting to the bottom of why the exclusions are happening with the help of the school. But you need to work faster at 13. He's a minor, yes. He's far from a child however.

Youre not unreasonable to find your own school to take him at all.

youre not unreasonable to home school either. Lots do it.

why was he permanently excluded?

He was permanently excluded for selling vapes and for a malicious accusation against a staff member.

What are you doing to try and address his behaviour?

You are incredibly lucky to be offered a managed move if he has made a malicious allegation - that quite often means no other school will take him, even PRUs can be reluctant, and set up special conditions, often part time, as they may well require double staffing for a child with that history

I've confiscated his phone, unless he really needs it. Pocket money has been docked, I went into the vape shop and told them they're not to serve my son.

I've made him pay back everything to those he sold vapes to. And also, I'm trying to tell him to save his stories for English, not for the real world and to almost get teachers into trouble!

A reasonable thing to ask ...

Why are you reluctant for him to try this managed move? Surely he has nothing to lose by giving it a go. Does he want it to work out for him?

@Shivermetimbers13

Yes, he is communicating that he is badly behaved enough to be excluded, thereby disrupting the education of his peers.

I agree

By SEN I assume you mean ADHD, autism, or some other combination of initials. As I said, the OP hasn't mentioned any of these.

Not really i mean special educational needs, its a very broad category, he doesn't need a diagnoses and this could be to do with external factors for example a child being a carer or having a parent in prison etc. A child may have SEN temporarily due tot he above or perhaps a health condition which they can recover from. Like cancer.

There are very many children who are badly behaved, with absolutely no special needs.

To be 13 and getting permanently excluded is so extreme that i would disagree this is merely a bit of bad behaviour. This lad has serious issues. he may have SEMH, ADHD or some other issues that need to be looked at. His behaviour sounds well outside a normal range.

Or do you think that all badly behaved children must have special needs?

To this extent yes, but see above for the definition of special needs. I think yours is very narrow.

The only positive I can see here is that, at 13, he still has time to turn his behaviour around.

Maybe, maybe not. I suggest he clearly needs help and a plan.

If he has been permanently excluded and you have the paperwork to say so, then taking up this school place is probably a good idea.

After six days into the permanent exclusion his education becomes the responsibility of the local authority.

They may try to get him into a different school. They may offer a place at a PRU. Most likely is that he will be offered a few hours of tutoring at home or in a village hall or somewhere.

Once he is out of school it can be really had to reintegrate into any school and there are a lot of teens at home with their educational provision a few hours tutoring.

PRUs are often very full and many these days try to run on a short programme to get students back to mainstream. Also, to be honest, if you don't like the students at the new school you'd have kittens over the students in a PRU.

If they've permanently excluded him, they don't get to send him to any school. Did you go to an exclusion hearing with representatives from the school governors there. If not, he's not permanently excluded and don't let them tell you otherwise. Managed moves can work but the expectations of behaviour during the trial period is so high as to let them fail him for any reason. If he has been excluded you can apply for any school you want.

Can I ask what the background is for the suspensions?

It's very unusual to have that number of suspensions without some level of SEN, acknowledged or not. The students I am aware of who have had that tended to either have severe adhd or autism or significant semh needs or they'd been recruited by county lines.

I suspect the school is the tip of the iceberg.

Can he cope with school? Not that school, but school in general?

How is he at home?

To be fair the malicious gossip means that he needs a fresh start - teachers will (rightly) be wary of teaching him

Completely agree lovelysoap.

OP whether or not an ADHD diagnosis is forthcoming I hope you have the wherewithal to view this whole situation as being to do with a child with unmet needs that needs you to advocate for them. For your child’s sake please don’t be cowed into thinking you are a bad parent with a child you should be ashamed of. 13 is so young. He needs helps. Head over to the SEN board. Check out IPSEA, SENSOS and your council’s local offer website.

If he has any of these things, the OP certainly hasn't mentioned any of them. He was tested for ADHD and found not to have it.

So, he has made a malicious accusation against a member of staff, thereby potentially causing huge distress and loss of career, and yet still some posters are effectively saying, 'poor little diddums, what is everyone doing to help him?'

It beggars belief.

It sounds like a managed move. You should grab it. You can of course look for another school but don't delude yourself that you can get him in without telling the truth about his situation. They will ask and they may enquire with the previous school.

You need to think seriously about whether anything will change on the next school. Does he actually need AP such as a PRU? Many kids whose behaviour is very challenging don't change just because they are given a new school. The behaviour starts up again. They find a new tribe of troublemakers and the cycle starts again.

If you think your child has been given a wee up Callander can turn it around I would accept the managed move and support the school 100%. Insist he wears the correct uniform. Check his bag for his equipment and ensure he does not have vapes or cash to buy them. Check his phone. Consider getting him a brick and keeping the smart phone until he has proven himself trustworthy. If this all sounds too much like hard work start looking at PRUS and get advice on how he can access one.

He is a child! At what point do you deem a child to just be bad and not worthy of help? It’s clearly before 13. So is it 10, 7, 5, birth? Has this 13 year old had control of his life experience so far, or his genetics? Or is he just unworthy of help because he is innately bad?

I've confiscated his phone, unless he really needs it.

Why would he need it?

Anyone with very challenging behaviour has special needs by virtue of the fact that they display aggressive or socially inappropriate behaviour. This is described as SEMH. This does not mean no accountanity or responsibility. It means they may need more support, more parenting and they may need AP such as a PRU. It isn't a free pass to make malicious allegations and to sell vapes to other students.

So you haven't confiscated it. He will want it. As a child he doesn't need it. Presumably you can lend him your phone to make a call under your supervision. Presumably he is grounded and is not allowed out at the moment?

To order some vapes on line?

No, I didn't say that. But the help should be coming from home, instead of shoving the problem back onto the school, it isn't their job to turn around badly behaved children. They are there to educate.

The OP stated the following.

We tested him for ADHD and they suspected he may have it, but we are uncertain at this time

He was not found not to have ADHD.

The OP doesn't have to share the diagnoses. He doesn't need a diagnoses to be deemed to have SEN anyway.

He is 13 and the 'system' has to provide him with a suitable education until he is 18, so from that point of view they have to be professional and not angry about it and just get on with trying to put things in place so he gets an education. He has got away with nothing, he has been permanently excluded from school. He is now at home no doubt getting serious consequences from his parents.

If they way he has behaved is taken seriously then this could be a turning point for him hopefully.

Some children may only need an education in English, maths, science, whatever. But some children, those with SEN, may not only need that ( in a different manner to meet their needs) but also education in emotional regulation, how to manage their sensory needs, how to manage their mental health etc. And no the law very clearly states that the LA should be providing this sort of education. It is not just the parents’ responsibility.

I very much doubt that he is getting 'serious consequences' at home. The OP has taken his phone away, but will give it back he needs it. This is no doubt the sort of parenting that has resulted in the present situation.