Even more cyclists now breaking the law

[DistingusedSocialCommentator]

Most drivers and pedestrians will be aware of this as many have seen or been victims of a cycle rider.

Watching Talktv this morning there was a lady who had lost her mother due to an e-scooter rider on the pavement. The show had a lawyer on talking about what I agree with, IE cyclists are very hard to identify if they get away from an accident.

E-scooters we all know are against the law unless provided for by your local council in central London. Several times over the years, me and the family have had close calls with them on pavements and parks as they zoom down, you cant hear them and they often dress in all black clothing.

Push bike riders are travelling faster and faster as many more have those battery packs on them

With the introduction of 20mph zones in vast areas of London, even more, push bike riders are now breaking the law, EG travelling well over 20mph in a 20mph and passing slower cars travelling at 20mph We are all aware how some push bike riders have ignored the rules for years, EG jump red lights, ignore pedestrians on crossings, cause accidents and walk of or rise off and now, much more able to break the speed limits off 20mph with almost 100% impunity and some that at red lights get o the pavement and cross a red light that way or some just ride on pavements

For the record, note, Its some cyclists not all but we have all seen them more so as going to work, or dropping off children at schools the speed of some of these riders

The Talktv debate also talked about those who kill people while riding a push bike/scooter, I think they said the maximum prison sentence was two years (I may be wrong) but the laws needed vast improvements.

This had been talked about a lot before but nothing happened.

AIBU proposes that all cyclists have number plates/easily identifiable markings, all have insurance, all have a bell and lights, and all wear a helmet and hi-vis jacket (This would in my judgment make many more riders more responsible for their actions and our roads/pavements safer for all)

The police need to be more proactive on e-scooter riders. However, as cyclists are almost impossible to identify, my proposal as above will aid the police and hopefully, modify the dangerous behaviours of those cyclists that are now regularly breaking the law, EG, travelling at more than the speed allowed, jumping red lights, putting pedestrians at risk on crossings and pavements.

WHO SAID it was going to be a "TINY" plate?
Stop making feeble excuses as there is nothing stopping riders from wearing a Hi-Vis with car reg size numbers on it and or motorbike-style plates the legal ones are easily readable.

Why are you so anti increased safety for pedestrians and cycle riders being easily identified when they break the law!!

@DistingusedSocialCommentator have you ever seen a bicycle? How would you fit a motorbike sized registration plate on it?

You still haven't answered the question that I and many other people have asked. - have you ever broken the speed limit in your car? Interesting that you're avoiding that one

Why would I break the speed limit when in the 40 years plus of driving I've never had a speeding or parking ticket and was educated to a high standard where I am very aware what overspeed can do!!!! Importantly, the "speeding" you refer to is the max you can drive subject to road conditions and I am safely guessing many are not aware that driving within the speed limit can result in fines if you are being dangerous/carless by driving style or driving in dangerous conditions. Even before the 20mph zones in most side roads I drove much slower due to to increased risk where many vehclies are parked in narrow roads and increased risk of accidents

A speed limit is the max, so even without breaking it you can be breaking the law in adverse weather conditions and or dangerous/careless driving

Many thanks for allowing me to respond, again

#push bike riders speeding, seen it many times in the 20mph zones, a danger and a menace to all on and around our roads. A speed limit is there for a reason - SAFETY

Trust me, if my proposals become law, just like the bike riders that report drivers because drivers can often be easily identified, I and many other people would report bike riders and very soon you will see a massive change for the better by cycle riders that were serial red light jumpers, pavement riders, etc, etc.

I'll let you have the last word

It does happen. Even without registration plates. Here’s the data from Met Police.
https://www.met.police.uk/foi-ai/metropolitan-police/d/september-2022/fixed-penalty-notices-issued-cycling-offences-london-january2017-august2022/
It is worth noting that cycling in 2022 was accountable for 4.5% of all journeys in London, or over 1.1m journeys in average daily. Which is a huge increase.
I suspect other forces publish too, or an FOI would access it. I am tired of some posters on this thread targeting cyclists as a homogeneous lawbreaking group, despite all the evidence to the contrary that I and others have provided with no data to back up their assertions.

Fact is cyclists demonstratably (and we’ve provided the stats) represent a far less danger to others than is perceived.
Some cyclists do break the law in a considered way - eg cycling on the pavement slowly with my kid, or breaking a poorly timed traffic signal because it’s safer for them to do so in the absence of decent infrastructure
Some cyclists (and despite perceptions it’s actually a small proportion) do behave dangerously and would likely behave just as dangerously in a car, but would actually present more or a risk due to physics.
Most cyclists just want to get from A to B and survive and know exactly how vulnerable they are as a road user. And how much it hurts to come off their bike so they try to avoid that.

I suspect the anti cyclist brigade on here won’t change their minds but know by spouting your untruths you do create a more hostile environment for cyclists like me, we are othered on the roads. Finally I’ll also leave you with this from LCC which should make for shocking reading if you think that this hostility doesn’t have real life impacts. There’s a trope that it’s MAMIL whereas barriers to cycling safely impact women most.

https://lcc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/P1252-LCC-Womens-Cycling-Campaign-Report_FINAL_2.pdf

There are loads of cycle lanes around here, but some of them still cycle on the pavement.

My most loathed section of the cycling fraternity though, was in a local park with a perimeter road (20 mph limit because of deer) but where the Lycra-clad brigade would zoom at way over the road limit on a shared perimeter pathway, expecting everyone, inc. old people, deaf people, little kids on bikes, old deaf dogs, etc. to get out of their way. There was more than one bad accident, inc. a dog killed.
Thank goodness a speed limit of 5 mph was eventually introduced. There are still those who ignore it, though. 🤬

Why are you so anti increased safety for pedestrians and cycle riders being easily identified when they break the law!!

I don't think anyone is against pedestrian safety here OP. We are against being forced to wear an ill fitting item of clothing to participate in a sport, especially given outside of central London it's a very different proposition. I can explain til i'm blue in the face that only one of my routes has any traffic lights on it, and that route only has one set where there is a) no safety need and b) no motivation to run it. I can go out for 50-60 miles and not see a pedestrian. This is the reality for most rural/semi-rural/small-medium sized town dwelling cyclists of which that is a very very big number.

For safety, campaign for suitable cycle infrastructure within city centres. Actually suitable. Where space is tight because of buildings this will mean taking space away from motor vehicles, and campaign for suitable infrastructure for pedestrians too. Turn areas under the outer areas of city centres into multi-level underground car parks and then pedestrianize more shopping streets etc with other neighboring/parallel roads available for bikes (again taking space away from the car so not surprised you won't support that).

If you are about safety then this would be the way to go. Take positive steps to make it better for people. That doesn't fit your narrative though does it.

If you are about being butthurt because bikes do not face the same extortionate government charges and mandated insurance racket payments licencing restrictions when using the road that motor vehicles have to then look at your own jealousy because so many of these threads this is what is really behind it, dressed up as 'pedestrian safety'. If it's so much better and it can get you round all the laws, get out of your Range Rover and get on a bike!

The Deliveroo fuckers with the big boxes on the back are the worst round here!

"I'll let you have the last word"

I doubt that, somehow.

😔

Putting a licence plate on my road bike is basically impossible. There is nowhere for it to go.

And I'm not wearing clothing with a fucking ID number on it for a stupid, idiotic idea that will do N-O-T-H-I-N-G to improve safety.

I mentioned in a previous post that Santander, Lime, Human Forest, etc bike riders are identifiable but SFA happens to them when you report their misdemeanours like dangerous parking.

So why do you think if you could put an identifiable tag on all cyclists whether they are 3 or 93, you think anything will be done.

And they are actually identifiable if they are doing a delivery.

Well OP, given that you're letting me have the last word apparently, I'll take you up on that.

You say you've never had a speeding ticket/fine. So what? Neither have I. But I can't honestly say I've never broken the speed limit in my car. I can honestly say I've never done over 20mph on my bike because I'm a fat 57 year old who's not fit.

Your proposals are bonkers, many many people have explained why, but you're not listening. I suspect you never cycle. I try to use my bike for all short (under 2 miles) journeys in order to improve my fitness and create less pollution. Why don't you try that rather than use your car?

I stick to the law and have never cycled through a red light. When I'm cycling, I have never felt endangered by other cyclists. Only by other motorists. I've had car drivers cut across me, turn left when I'm cycling along in a cycle lane, hoot me for no reason whatsoever, shout at me, overtake me when it's downright dangerous etc etc. My son has been knocked off his bike by a woman overtaking him on a blind bend and then having to swerve back in when a car came the other way.

OP, why don't you commit to making all short journeys by bike for a month. Then you can come back and tell us if you still think your proposals should be introduced.

Who said it was going to be a tiny plate? Did you even read the thread? The poster I quoted included an image of a very small plate (3 inches max) mounted parallel with the direction of travel. Fine for a high definition camera doing photo finishes at a race. Useless for "did anyone get his number as they're always going away when you need to read it.

We're all still waiting for you to provide some quantification of exactly how many of the zero pedestrians who died following a collision with a bicycle in 2022 this would have saved.

I'm very much in favour of pedestrian safety, for that reason I support the Welsh Government's move to 20mph limits in built-up areas and the move towards reclaiming street space for people rather than cars. For some reason I rather doubt that you back such measures.

Who said it was going to be a tiny plate? Did you even read the thread? The poster I quoted included an image of a very small plate (3 inches max)

That was me and don't be so pedantic, that was in reference to other posters previously saying there was no where on their bikes they could attach any sort of id. If you think it was an actual complete design I was suggesting them you have proved your bias in one foul swoop. Don't be so pathetic.

If you cannot figure out how to attach any size readable plate to a bike then, i worry for you technical expertise and should not even be involved in any discussion how to achieve the aim.

At the end of the day you want to be anonymous on the road and want to take ZERO responsibility for cyclist actions this involves cyclists involving incidents by their carless riding even if they are not directly involved in the incident itself. Cyclists cause many incidents as a direct cause of their actions and bugger off with no way to trace them. They do not have to be a victim to be a cause.

Pathetic.

Millions said and the media was banging on about it , re England
"The lockdown in chain, a dictatorial country, a lockdown could never happen in England."
The rest is history
Read my previous posts but you won't and there is no reason why cyclists can not have some type of reg on the bike but better still on the Hi-vis and that will also show if they are ensured

Before getting a visible registration system onto bikes/riders - I have a way to ensure the majority of riders have insurance

Just like the police pulls over drivers to check insurance etc, pull over all riders to check if they have insurance. If having insurance was the law, trust me, after several thousand had been finned on the spot or via courts, over 90% of the riders will get cycle insurance

As I said several times, its going to take some kind of massive tragedy where a cyclist mows down a child and rides off before we get the stupid politicians of their arse to get this law in place and then to enforce it. Enforcing red light jumping will be easy - EG drivers with dash cams and pedestrians with mobile phones reporting this rider just like some riders report drivers - simple as that really.

Other than a feeble excuse, put up a real argument against bike riders being easily identifiable to answer to their breach of the law

I have no objection to being identifyable, I don't break the law. The idea that this is the objection is a figment of yours and the OP's respective imaginations.

Do kindly provide an illustration of a plate capable of providing more than 20 million possible combinations of letters and numbers (using no Is, Os or Qs) and legible from 20m to the rear. One which doesn't obstruct rear lights or reflectors.

The reason that everyone is objecting is exactly the same reason that every expert on the planet objects and that 192 countries (out of 193) have decided that it's not viable. You and the OP seem to think that you know better than every expert on the subject. So I'll wait for you two to publish a peer-reviewed paper on the subject.

3 pedestrians per year killed by bicycles vs 507 pedestrians (not counting the rest) killed by motor vehicles. Let's get our priorities right, shall we?

I'd like to place a bet that there are fewer uninsured cyclists than there are uninsured drivers on the roads.

This thread is ridiculous.

There is a reason why no government in the world has instituted bicycle registration, which includes countries like the Netherlands and Denmark which are veritable bicycle valhallas.

It's because cycling overall is safe and healthy. If every single person in the country would ditch their car and start cycling traffic deaths would plummet. Not only deaths, obesity rates would go down, air quality would go up.

I bet you every penny you do not have that the percentage of cyclists that DONT have insurance is massively greater than those that drive cars

You ready to be or run or admit you shot your self in the left and then the right foot?

pedestrians per year killed by bicycles vs 507 pedestrians (not counting the rest) killed by motor vehicles. Let's get our priorities right, shall we?

Its quite apparent you have no idea or refuse to acknowledge what underlying and root causation of incidents mean. Plenty of incidents can have vehicles as the direct cause of death, but there are plenty of these where the cyclist was the underlying or root cause and not listed in the basic figures.

You are wilfully ignoring these facts and its not worth discussing with some one who deliberately ignores all the facts.

You mean cyclists like my DD?

Or are you just ignoring under 18s?

BTW under 18s frequently borrow adult bikes. So you are happy for the police to continually harass under 18s because they are riding an older family members/friends bike?

Even if insurance for cyclists becomes mandatory the premiums would be very low. Simply because the amount of damage you can do on a bike is much lower than with a car.

I have general liability insurance (this is a thing in the Netherlands that most adults have) and it costs 4 euros a month. You don't even need a separate one for cycling because the risk of a payout is so low.

Bike insurance in the UK is mainly for the risk of theft of your bike. Third party is thrown in because a claim is extremely unlikely. This is unlike a car.

Oh yeah and the Netherlands have more bicycles than people, the average person cycles much more (for school kids it's on average more than 20 miles a week) and even they don't find it necessary to make bicycle insurance mandatory.

That is precisely my point.

I have insurance on a cargo bike, 16 euros a month and it doesn't include liability insurance. Not many insurances offer that because it's considered wholly unnecessary.