To ask what makes you middle class?

[Wantobeareader]

I am not from the UK so not very familiar with these class definitions (which personally I cannot stand) but I am curious to understand what people mean with MC. I thought it was a term referred to the fairly wealthy but apparently lots of people and incomes seem to fall into that categories.
So, how would you define Middle Class? Feel free to type a description of a typical MC person you can think of :)

Fish fingers 😁

Ooh I was elite in that too, no idea why, utter bollocks

I am confused by some these definitions, e.g. 'uni degree, cultural pursuits, theatre visits, BBC documentaries, NT.' Doesn't that just mean 'educated'?

It's all about when you open your Christmas presents.
Before breakfast - working class
After breakfast but before lunch - lower middle class
After lunch - upper middle
After dinner - Upper class
Boxing day - Royalty 👑

I agree. I think asking people to take their shoes off is a WC thing to do. In all my MC friends and family's houses we keep our shoes on( unless we've been for a muddy walk or been gardening obviously). Being worried about cleanliness is a WC thing, think of all those cleaning people on Instagram eg Mrs Hinch, she's very working class and I should imagine appeals to WC women. Also in shops like B&M, Poundland etc there are vast amounts of cleaning products for sale, far more than in Sainsbury's, Waitrose, plus there are different types of cleaning products to presumably appeal to the different demographics.

I have a first class degree and a masters degree, I have a professional job, I have a nice home I own outright with my husband (also highly educated and successful in his career). We live a fairly middle class lifestyle, we go to the theatre, to the ballet and opera, we get an organic veg box and bake our own bread. We read literary fiction and watch Classic French New Wave films. We even have some middle class friends but we will never be seen as properly middle class by actual middle class people because we both come from working class back grounds, have working class families and working class regional accents. Our kids or grandkids might be middle class but in the UK you can't move up a class in a single generation, you can be a working class person made good that is all.

.A-Jdz-0ijLcA-NMi7S1BGf

Capital. You have a large amount of disposable capital.

If you have that, and an inherited title, then you're upper class.

The thing is op, does it matter?

I'm University educated but I quit my job because I'm a carer for my disabled son. DH earns 30k so we get some benefits. Rent. Both raised definitely solid WC.

Does that stop me going to the Opera or taking DC to the theatre? Does it mean I can't have intelligent conversations, volunteer, care about big issues, read intelligent books? Does being WC mean that I can't give my kids social capital?

Yes not being UC changes their lives but that not attainable for most people.

Ok we don't get to take the kids skiing every Spring or whenever is best to go, there's no annual trip to somewhere that costs 10k but their lives aren't some terrible melodrama of deprivation.

Also not from this country though I've lived here 20 years and find the definitions of WC and MC are merging into one as we no longer have a heavy blue collar economy (manufacturing, dockers etc).

DP calls himself WC because he grew up poor to a single mum but his mum has a post grad degree and had an office job and so did he and all his siblings. And he's very cultured and well read. Their area of London is gentrified now and was traditionally working class (people who worked in factories) when he was young, but even then he grew up a decent sized mid terrace on a nice street. So I don't really understand why he's any different to my friends who self identify as MC just because they shop at Waitrose...

I, on the other hand, am from another country and went to private school, both my parents (and their parents too) are uni educated and wealthy with a love of finer things, though neither worked office jobs, and I do a well paid corporate job. But I'm a cheap skate who loves Aldi and taking the bus, and prefer my London flat to suburbia.

So I think the class system will soon become a divide between those who live in council housing, those who own large estates and land, and everyone else. Because really there's no other divide anymore with the advent of technology and opportunities in all our lives.

There is also an intangible thibgbif just how someone conducts themselves.

Think of the noise levels in a coubtry pub verses a Weatherspoons.

The soft touches of how a house is decorated or a wedding laid out. The classy finish.

Sitting at a table for meal times. Children having table manners and adults using cutlery with proper etiquette.

How someone speaks, their volume, words and phrases as well as accent.

Where they live and what they wear. The more affluent end of working class tends to be highly polished. Ladies with nails done, hair done, little boys with part shaved/ gelled hair wearing a polo shirt. Whereas middle class, particularly coubtry folk are more likely to be in a wooly jumper and jeans with children in shorts and flyaway hair.

Are the children fed on chicken nuggets or fed normal foods the same as the adults.

What are the children called?

My family's background and accent, my upbringing. University gave me an education but I've been referred to as an oik in my middle class occupation (higher ed).

Nonsense. If Prince William had no money would he become working class? Why is David Beckham not middle class?

Well yes, a G&T makes an excellent aperitif too!

But a glass of wine (particularly of the fizzy variety) is always welcome

I’m in the (probably ever increasing) group of people not allowed to declare a class. Grew up working class in terms of financial and cultural capital, or lack of. Always did well at school, went to uni, good career, relatively high household income, a lot of the MC “traits” and activities now. But if I call myself WC I’d get told I was being one of those people ever claiming to be WC despite a MC lifestyle, but if I say I am MC other people would be quick to tell me class doesn’t change etc, I will always be WC. Both sides trying to belittle I find, so weird how sneery this discussion gets and can’t understand why people aren’t just allowed to classify themselves if they so wish. Ultimately, I’m just proud of where I am and live the life I want to live. I drink good wine, go to the theatre regularly, but bloody love a good package holiday too. So brand me as you will!

@Dogfisher if prince William had no money he would not be a member of the royal family. If he was a benefits claimant who's family were broke then he wouldn't be upper class anymore would he? David Beckham doesn't have a class. He's just a walking product placement with a failed hair transplant. He's an advert, not a person.

It’s all down to whether you call the thing you put the car in, a gararzh or a garridge.
Or so a relative of mine would have said - she who had a PhD in ‘U’ and
‘Non-U’. 😉

In my opinion, "working-class" and "middle-class" are typically used as labels for your upbringing, not your current status.

I grew up in a council house, raised by a single mother who could only work limited hours and only in termtime (until I was older), so money was always tight. This means I label myself as working-class.

This is despite the fact that I have been to university, have a well-paid well-respected job, own a detached house with 2 cars outside, etc.... however all of these things mean that my son counts as middle class (or will when he grows up anyway).

I'm afraid I don't think professional, uni-educated, highly paid home owners could be considered working class (in official sociological terms) anymore, even if they have working class roots. To be truly working class you need to be a blue collar worker, in my humble opinion. The professionals with working class roots have been upwardly mobile and become middle class, in every meaningful sociological sense. Class isn't a feeling, it's a a set of facts.

I and my sibling/cousins were the first generation of our family to be born middle class. Our parents came from a poor rural background, got into grammar school, went to university and ended up in professions. I did not go to university however.

I do think nowadays it's changed so much anyway. Many people can't be neatly boxed into one class anymore. I think most people go up and down a great deal, and are just not easily defined.
I'm not remotely interested in putting people into a class category. All I'm interested in is whether they're a nice person or not 🤷

Yes, this is factually correct. But folks have a lot of emotion round it. Many of the statements on this thread are completely Illogical.

for example. If your parents are working class, you are working class. But illogically this doesn’t apply to your kids who can be middle class. Even though you are working class.

social mobility doesn’t exist, you cannot move class, you are what you were born into.

if you work you’re working class, even though all classes work.

then we have people who are clearly working class, declaring themselves middle class due to their parents. Or people who are firmly middle class declaring themselves working class, again due to their upbringing and deciding their actual adult lives bizzarely don’t count.

we also have people erroneously telling other people what they are, so a firmly middle class person being told they are working class.

class is a very simple set of criteria. It isn’t simply anout money at its core, some middle class folks earn less than working class and vice Versa. It’s about the type of work you do, your educational/skill and if you’re paid a wage or a salary.

Lampslights
I think people who have benefited from social mobility end up feeling like they're straddling two worlds, which is how they might feel working class because of their roots, upbringing and outlook whilst living a life that's probably more typical of the middle class.

That's how they feel working class is part of their identity but they know their children are having a different upbringing and different experience so will probably feel more middle class.

Then again I like what a poster said that the more main divides are unemployed/precariat group, people who are employed or self employed to earn their living (most working and middle classes), and those who are wealthy/have independent income streams/lots of intergenerational wealth (upper middle classes and upper classes).

I think it is odd to be in that between place where you don't quite fit in anywhere fully, not even with the "nouveau riche". On paper class is about income and education but in reality if you aren't brought up middle class its apparent to others who were and they will look down on you for it, sorry to those who would deny this but I've experienced it far too many times even from friends and know for a fact it happens.

I always find it funny that people tend to think working class equates to having no money. You really must visit Essex 😆 You can be as rich as Bill Gates and still be working class. I was evidently bothered by David Beckham saying "be honest" to Victoria about her class status in regards to what car her dad drove.

But back to the main topic, a sure sign of being MC might include:

• Having an RHS membership
• Having a National Trust membership
• Being a friend of Kew Gardens

😉

What's the difference between a wage and a salary? We pay some of our people £300-400 an hour on a zero-hours contract - is that a wage? Does that make them WC?