To expect staff to keep this day free, even if not contracted to work?

[Newyeargrinch]

Senior manager in a small business that has just paid out a considerable amount of money to sponsor a local event towards the end of the year (think Xmas fair). This could potentially bring in a lot of good publicity and business for us. The success of the event depends on having plenty of staff present to represent us. The event is on a Saturday. Some staff work Saturday anyway, some alternate Saturdays. Others are weekday only, some full time, others part time. I know full well that if we asked for volunteers or left until nearer the time, certain staff would come up with reasons why they couldn't help. Therefore an email has gone out to all staff, informing them of the date and saying we expect them to keep it free to attend this event (they will get an extra day off in lieu). Several staff replied to say they didn't know their plans that far ahead as yet but, if free, would be happy to help. We've replied that, if they have nothing planned, they can keep the day free and will be expected to help.

It has been fed back that many staff are unhappy and say that we cannot dictate what they do with their spare time.

I think it's a small ask, they've had 10 months notice and it could bring a lot of extra business our way, ultimately benefiting them!

AIBU?

I can see the stick but no carrot....

I don't think your being unreasonable as asking for people to help . But you can't expect them or make them do it . Ask for volunteers and them without children see how you go and there is a nice way of asking without getting stroppy and you can only ask can't you

When you say an extra day off in lieu, do you mean in addition to getting overtime, or just that the day off in lieu is expected to be a fair swap? If it’s the latter then you have to realise that that’s just not feasible for many people. Swapping work on one day to work on another day doesn’t recognise that people have plans and commitments. For example parents who work full time and only get to spend a decent amount of time with their children at the weekends won’t get that time back just because youve given them another day off because the kids will still have to go to school etc on the day you give in lieu. Some might not actually have another parent available that day to look after them so it might actually cost them money in childcare to attend the event. Others might not have ‘plans’ but attend regular things on that day (gym class, church etc) so you’re still inconveniencing them.

Yes, it is reasonable notice, but you still can’t EXPECT people to rearrange their lives and potentially incur additional costs just because you’ve asked them to well in advance. You need to actually make it worth their while. A day off in lieu doesn’t do this, all this means is that they’re still being paid for the number of days they work. If you want to put them out then you need to make it worth their while; you need to give the day off in lieu AND something else, ideally cold hard cash. If it’s important to the business then it needs to put its money where its mouth is rather than just demanding the goodwill of its employees and going in the huff if they don’t oblige.

Maybe offer extra money. But as a business owner myself I would never consider dictating what my staff can or cannot do on their designated free time. Mind you my staff would willing commit to anything for me as we are like family. I would also be guving them extra money and a day In lieu. If I received an email like you sent out I’d be inclined to tell you to F off.

When you say an extra day off in lieu, do you mean in addition to getting overtime, or just that the day off in lieu is expected to be a fair swap? If it’s the latter then you have to realise that that’s just not feasible for many people. Swapping work on one day to work on another day doesn’t recognise that people have plans and commitments. For example parents who work full time and only get to spend a decent amount of time with their children at the weekends won’t get that time back just because youve given them another day off because the kids will still have to go to school

Exary this. A forced ‘Right, staff-have a random Wednesday off in December rather than a Saturday when you could have a lovely Christmassy day out with your family’ is not a generous offer!

Many, many teachers fell the same way. If they don't leave the profession entirely, they step back from anything beyond 'just' classroom teaching, or quit and do 'supply teaching' or become HLTAs so they can just do their contracted hours and go home. I think people would be surprised at the number of HLTAs and 'regular' TAs who are qualified teachers because they're no longer willing to kill themselves for a job and other people's children whilst neglecting their own.

I think if you are the type of boss to do something like this his knows what else you have probably done that you think is fine. You employ them you don’t own them. They don’t care about generating extra business, it’s just a job to them. You should have just asked for volunteers to be rostered or paid people more. It’s unreasonable to ask people to be on standby no matter how much notice you give..

Are you offering overtime pay (1.5x or 2x salary for example) to work on a non-working day? You can ask, but you can't demand people work.

Most people have a life outside of work including hobbies, friends, children and caring responsibilities. December is a time when lots of people travel further afield to see friends and family and they aren't going to give that up easily.

So OP never came back and 38 pages of fuckwits arguing with thin air
Bravo OP

Hardly ‘fuckwits’. They didn’t know OP wasn’t coming back.

Or... people have a lot to say now that the subject (of employers feeling entitled to the free labour during the personal time of their employees) has been raised.

Absolutely asking is fine. But targetting those without children is not fine. Childless people also have lives and commitments - care of other relatives, a second job, social plans, or just that they don't want to.
Everyone's time has equal value. 😀

"... it could bring a lot of extra business our way, ultimately benefiting them"

Are they shareholders? No? Then it's not benefitting them, it's benefitting YOU.

YAB incredibly U and entitled. Let me guess, these are people on low wages that you're used to being able to push around?

I would definitely tell you to Foxtrot Oscar, as soon as I had a new job. Unbelievable audacity.

Bloody well said @HollaHolla!

Well, speaking as a business owner I would tell you that you cannot expect them to work anything they are not contracted to work and, if you are asking for them to be available to you as an act of goodwill then you need to have a goodwill relationship with your staff.

If it's outside of contracted hours you absolutely cannot do this.

I would retract your last email, before you have trade unions involved!

You're going about it the wrong way, look after your staff, they'll look after you, You first needed to ask staff rostered anyway that day, if you make it worth their while especially if you are due to make good money, they'll more likely help you out, bear in mind the ones who have children may not be able to go anyway, so don't expect them to keep that date

If I was contracted to work only week days I'd tell you I'd consider it for double time and expect confirmation Im needed and being paid as such asap (assuming I didn't have something important already booked, in which case just no). Otherwise you've just given me notice to use the next 10 months to find a more respectful employer.

I think - like a few posters here - the OP didn’t get the answer she wanted - and walked

Presumably some of you wanting to tell the boss of your small employer to "fuck off" don't mind collecting your wages each month and you're probably planning to keep doing that and don't expect to be told to fuck off yourself and find another job ?

10 months notice and you find every excuse under the sun to avoid it ?

I promise you that if I asked and you said no, the reason you wouldn't be there in 10 months time is because you wouldn't be working for me long before that date.

However, I hope the business owner has been sensible enough to have in the contract of employment that every day is a potential working day.

Employees should also note that employers can dictate when employees have their holidays. Imagine if all those who won't do the Xmas gig find themselves having their holiday requests denied and schedule to have the month of October off instead.

Presumably some of you wanting to tell the boss of your small employer to "fuck off" don't mind collecting your wages each month and you're probably planning to keep doing that and don't expect to be told to fuck off yourself and find another job

presumably there is work done for the wages each month, they don’t get paid just because. There is a surplus of jobs atm and many employers are struggling to get candidates to interview

I promise you that if I asked and you said no, the reason you wouldn't be there in 10 months time is because you wouldn't be working for me long before that date.

you don’t own your staff and not every day is a working day, for many reasons this isn’t possible in many situations, thank goodness there are employment laws concerning contracts

Employees should also note that employers can dictate when employees have their holidays. Imagine if all those who won't do the Xmas gig find themselves having their holiday requests denied and schedule to have the month of October off instead.

vindictive managers will never ever get the best workforce, they’ll alway wonder why they get a demotivated staff who they don’t consider loyal & let them down

Ok then......

I can promise you that if you are the type of person to push staff out because they won’t do anything you demand, your staff turnover would be horrendous.

You running a small business, doesn’t mean you get to ignore employment law. Which you would be doing by pushing people out because they won’t give in to your demands.

Of course they don’t mind drawing a wage. Do you mind them coming into work and doing their job? They work for that money. Why would they mind getting a wage?

Do you give them an equal share of profits? If not, why would they be as personally invested in the business as the owner is?

Having ‘everyday is a work day’ in a contract isn’t particularly helpful. Firstly, it’s often not enforceable when people have regular shift patterns for prolonged periods. But also, let’s say Op could make everyone work that day. They will be down staff in other days, because the employer can’t force them to work extra hours.

and again, if a business tries to use annual leave enforcement as a way to force people to give in to their demands and don’t have a business reason for it, they will find themselves getting a claim for constructive dismissal.

Pretty sure some people just run small businesses because they have a massive controlling streak they need to indulge.

I work for a business that started with 2 employees. Now employs over 1500 and turns over 350mil a year and still growing. We have very low attrition rates. Because the owner isn’t a dickhead and treats his staff with respect. Funnily enough, plenty of our employees would help out. Because they know the owner looks after them and it wouldn’t be a demand. It would be a request with lots of incentives.

"I promise you ..." 🤣🤣🤣

Bet that attitude goes down a storm with your employees.